Showing that feminists don't all hate heterosexual male sexuality

[IronPyrites]

OK so I am talking about consensual adult sexuality only.

I think there is a feeling, imo an incorrect one, but still a feeling, among many straight men that feminism wants to impose celibacy on all straight men, and hates and derides any expression of male sexuality.
Now, while I think this is unfounded, I wonder sometimes if there is any mileage in perhaps showing some compassion for the difficulties that many straight men encounter in their personal lives in general, and perhaps even that the pain of sexual or romantic frustration is no less real (and perhaps heightened by societal expectations of the straight male stud) for this group of people than anyone else. I have nothing but contempt for the so-called incels who clearly despise and feel entitled to women, and for men who express disdain for and behave badly to women in other ways, but I do think it may do some good to counter the message that you sometimes hear that feminism is anti-men, and showing that there is probably a societal bias against and fear of male sexuality in general. I hope you understand what I mean.

For instance, I recently read a survey where US women voted on what vehicle was most attractive fit a man to drive.

Bit of a loaded question! Most women I imagine would roll their eyes at that. Then there's how the answers are framed. Poorly I'm assuming. And then there's how that actually translates into the world. I snogged DH well before I knew what he drove! And what he drove was a Honda.

I'm willing to bet one of the most popular pictures of Tom Hardy on the internet is the one with the dog. Caring, sweet, loving and hot. Not just toxic masculinity.

I think many people think of toxic masculinity as being the same as toxic behaviour, which I think isn't necessarily the case (although the former could easily lead to the latter).

I wonder if it can be hard to distinguish in individual cases sometimes. So, a guy comes across as confident, motivated, non-lazy, successful, physically fit, etc. All things which would be seen as positive by most people. But perhaps his father drilled into him from an early age that 'men can't be girly', 'no women wants a wimp for a boyfriend', etc. Maybe his older brothers took the piss out of him for being weedy and he became obsessed with attaining the 'ideal male body', or becoming physically big and 'tough' or successful so that nobody picked on him anymore.

I think there are a lot of guys out there with warped views as to 'what makes a man', and lots of men who have 'something to prove' but are too defensive/self conscious to let it show as men aren't supposed to show weakness. The type of men who seem like the ideal partner but then suddenly show this other side, perhaps when the relationship is tested and they start to care less about how the other person views them.

NewName I haven't seen the survey you refer too, and don't doubt it exists. Indeed, I have even thought, 'he's a bit of allright' about a gym bunny Alpha Male type before now. However, now I am in my 60th year (and to be fair probably 15 yrs before that) wouldn't want a relationship with one, as I have the t shirt. As I have said, in my personal experience, not scientific at all, of many years working in a male dominated profession, it's the ones that actually seem to like women, have time for them, don't mansplain, and don't just want to shag them that have the most sucess. Even if, using unpleasant judginess of aesthetic appraisal they have fallen out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. Obviously this would be entirely different for a woman, but that's a whole other Fred.

Some of the men I know who complain that women are only interested in Alpha males are actually not talking about all women. They only see certain women as potential mates and often completely overlook those women who they see as less attractive.

That's very true Circle. Much better articulated than I would have made it.

PS. And then ten years down the line, when not quite so slim and conventionally attractive, complain that their former trophy partners are 'shallow' fatter

where US women voted on what vehicle was most attractive fit a man to drive. Pick up truck (ultimate epitomy of machismo) was first by a fair margin

See, I drive a pick-up truck (that’s ute in Ausspeak), so problem solved. I can’t blame a woman for truck envy, I myself might think about putting out for a Dodge Ram as big as my house.

But in the long run, owning and driving your own truck is much more, well, satisfying.

I think OP has a point. I am prepared to represent all non men hating feminists and show straight men we don’t hate them by having sex with (some) of them - my humble sacrifice will start with Jason Momoa, Antonio Banderas, Henry Cavill and then finish with The Rock ( I know, I know )
I don’t even care if they are wearing crocs

A lot of women might think 'silly survey' and not vote. And of the remaining self-selecting sample, chances are most wouldn't really give high weighting to the type of car into their choice of a partner. 'Babe magnets' (urgh) are only of any relevance if you're interested in attracting 'babes', I suppose.

Most real women put greater weight on factors like reliability, practicality and low emissions, IME. For cars too...

Hoppinggreen, your sacrifice is noted and appreciated.

The Rock wearing Crocs
Jason Mamoa in a Feather Boa
Antonio Banderas in Suspenderas

Stop it scrimp you are making me come over all unnecessary

I'll do:

Keanu Reeves in floppy sleeves
Jamie Foxx in Birkenstocks
Steve Buscemi in a mankini.

@NewNameNewShoes

I think many people think of toxic masculinity as being the same as toxic behaviour, which I think isn't necessarily the case (although the former could easily lead to the latter).

I wonder if it can be hard to distinguish in individual cases sometimes. So, a guy comes across as confident, motivated, non-lazy, successful, physically fit, etc. All things which would be seen as positive by most people. But perhaps his father drilled into him from an early age that 'men can't be girly', 'no women wants a wimp for a boyfriend', etc. Maybe his older brothers took the piss out of him for being weedy and he became obsessed with attaining the 'ideal male body', or becoming physically big and 'tough' or successful so that nobody picked on him anymore.

I think there are a lot of guys out there with warped views as to 'what makes a man', and lots of men who have 'something to prove' but are too defensive/self conscious to let it show as men aren't supposed to show weakness. The type of men who seem like the ideal partner but then suddenly show this other side, perhaps when the relationship is tested and they start to care less about how the other person views them.

So its men who are intimidating the men, according to your theory. Interesting.

Remind me again why it's women who are expected to clean up the mess?

I personally will always be drawn to a nan who makes me laugh, who listens to me, who considers me, who treats me like a human.

Nan??? Man! It's meant to say man! Frigging autocucumber

If I have to take one for the team, it'd be Keanu Reeves or, if I'm feeling like someone fresher, Sam Clafin, as he's cute.

BigGee do love a Nan with a sense of humour, sadly mine was a miserable old bat

Oh that's sad, my granny was an absolute hoot. Seriously bad influence. Was a member of the Temperance Society who decided that sherry didn't count and got squiffy at every wedding or party.

Apparently she was a lot of fun when she was younger but it got her into trouble (my mum) and when her husband agreed to take them both on she had to “behave” and he wore her down so she was the ice queen by the time we came along
When her husband was in hospital dying she started to shine ( was in her mid 70’s by then) and was making plans to enjoy life again but sadly she died suddenly not long after him
Sorry, bit depressing

How sad for her. See OP? Women's spirits get crushed too. You're whining about not getting your leg over, here's a woman who spent her entire life being squashed cos one of you DID get his leg over and waltzed off on his merry way.

I don’t even know what an “Alpha” male is.

I have worked with several colleagues who were ex-special services of various kinds. Are they alpha males? In which case alpha males appear to be efficient and capable people with excellent communication skills. I don’t imagine you have to be SAS to emulate those qualities.

I’ve never really understood what men mean by alpha males: wolf packs are led by a “head couple; male lions live in coalitions with other males; stallions might have a harem, but there will be a dominant mare who controls herd movement, and young stallions live in bachelor herds. The dominant male narrative has no real parallel in nature - it seems to be about as achievable and desirable a goal for men as Barbie is for women.

I’ve never heard women speculating on their innate mareishness or how they fit into a pride.

I know what you mean OP. Its become a battle of women vs men for some feminists, and the funny thing is they often couldnt care less about other women, its as long as they get to win whatever game theyre playing.

I consider myself a feminist but I'd be unable to give a single of how our system is 'set up' to provide for men, as it provides for both sexes, and does a reasonable job at doing that.

We need to cut back on the anti-men rhetoric, especially when half our our children are men it really isnt going to benefit them.

@DancelikeEmmaGoldman

I don’t even know what an “Alpha” male is.

I have worked with several colleagues who were ex-special services of various kinds. Are they alpha males? In which case alpha males appear to be efficient and capable people with excellent communication skills. I don’t imagine you have to be SAS to emulate those qualities.

I’ve never really understood what men mean by alpha males: wolf packs are led by a “head couple; male lions live in coalitions with other males; stallions might have a harem, but there will be a dominant mare who controls herd movement, and young stallions live in bachelor herds. The dominant male narrative has no real parallel in nature - it seems to be about as achievable and desirable a goal for men as Barbie is for women.

I’ve never heard women speculating on their innate mareishness or how they fit into a pride.

An alpha male is a dominant, competant, strong man who can be aggressive when required and isn't afraid to compete against other men. Who sees himself as a dominant man and instigates leadership.

I think the alpha male thing is about gorillas. Or something. It's not an argument that's used much, these days.

I was once told by a US special forces bloke that I was an 'alpha female' - which I would have preened about had it not been clearly made-up bollocks. Maybe its another one of these American cultural myths that just don't make much sense anywhere else.

I've always found dominant men to be insecure weaklings in actual reality. Not tolerating criticism, quick to resort to fists and desperately in need of constant reassurance and validation that yes, sweetie, you DO look impressive behind the wheel of whatever vehicle fills your particular void.