Showing that feminists don't all hate heterosexual male sexuality

[IronPyrites]

OK so I am talking about consensual adult sexuality only.

I think there is a feeling, imo an incorrect one, but still a feeling, among many straight men that feminism wants to impose celibacy on all straight men, and hates and derides any expression of male sexuality.
Now, while I think this is unfounded, I wonder sometimes if there is any mileage in perhaps showing some compassion for the difficulties that many straight men encounter in their personal lives in general, and perhaps even that the pain of sexual or romantic frustration is no less real (and perhaps heightened by societal expectations of the straight male stud) for this group of people than anyone else. I have nothing but contempt for the so-called incels who clearly despise and feel entitled to women, and for men who express disdain for and behave badly to women in other ways, but I do think it may do some good to counter the message that you sometimes hear that feminism is anti-men, and showing that there is probably a societal bias against and fear of male sexuality in general. I hope you understand what I mean.

Well, BigGee, the US Special forces man that I mentioned was really struggling to deal with severe anxiety and PTSD. Just to note that the idea some men are 'invincible' is really utter nonsense, and harmful nonsense, too.

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

Well, BigGee, the US Special forces man that I mentioned was really struggling to deal with severe anxiety and PTSD. Just to note that the idea some men are 'invincible' is really utter nonsense, and harmful nonsense, too.

Of course it is Scrimpshaw. It's poisonous and stops men seeking help when they actually really do need it. That's why the suicide rates are so outrageously high.

I don't know a single man who is "invincible" in my real life and can therefore cope with absolutely anything and everything. Those that try to, they eventually snap. I was just responding to the very sincere explanation offered as to what an Alpha male is a wee while ago. The problem is that somehow men have this impression that they're not allowed to be vulnerable human beings capable of "softer" feelings such as sadness or anxiety.

An alpha male is a dominant, competant, strong man who can be aggressive when required and isn't afraid to compete against other men. Who sees himself as a dominant man and instigates leadership.

Aren't quite a lot of such people now considered to have psychopathic traits? Which, if their energies are positively directed, isn't necessarily a negative. Eg some surgeons, CEOs.

I'm not sure such traits are specific to men, but they're more likely to be lauded in a man than in a woman.

It would describe a lot of athletes too, wouldn't it? Female and male. Nobody gets to the Olympics by being afraid to compete.

There ps also a problem that there are quite a few who have those alleged 'alpha' traits but unfortunately lack competence. Quite a lot of political leaders spring to mind - too many nowadays haven't put in the serious work required to be competent in science, technology, stats which lead to crap decision making in today's world.

There's some glaringly obvious examples at the moment, unfortunately.

This article mentions a couple of studies on the 'alpha male' myth. Looks quite pertinent, tho I don't have time to read the whole thing right now.

greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_myth_of_the_alpha_male

That's a really interesting article Scrimpshaw. I hope the OP is still around and reads it too, it's pretty fair.

Yeah, because the biggest issue facing women now is caring for the feelz of sexually frustrated men. As if the rest of the world isn't solely focussed on them. Jesus Christ.

The hyper competent alpha male is pure fiction. You only get good at things by fucking up and failing a lot. You also can’t be an expert at everything, so at some stage everyone has to learn to shut the fuck up and follow someone who knows what they are doing. It is true confidence goes a long way, but the same holds true for women also.

I do think sex has become and has been dysfunctional for a long time. It should if nothing else be pleasurable, but we’re all so programmed (both men and women) it has become a playground for our shadows in the psychological sense. Men with an over inflated sense of self, ego and entitlement, in a space with all too many women with wrecked self esteem is a recipe for disaster.

I hear all too often from women how any given man is not that bad, or could be worse. Although it is nice to hear occasionally when they find one they define by his virtues and how good he is for them, and yes sometimes by how good he is in bed!

Men are socialised for take advantage, and women are socialised to be taken advantage of. I believe this socialisation goes against human nature.

@Dervel I thought that was a really thought-provoking post. I read the article Scrimpshaw posted as well. Lots of food for thought which I'm digesting and processing right now.

It is true confidence goes a long way

Misplaced confidence can go a long way in undesirable directions, until it's rumbled. People with a 'can do' attitude who, when push comes to shove, can't, can be a significant problem.

@IronPyrites if you like that consider watching Germaine Greer’s debate on pornography: she makes some very good points I think are relevant here.

@ErrolTheDragon you are 100% correct there. It’s also exacerbated by those who may achieve excellence in one narrow area of life, and expect the kudos and deference in all areas.

As with anything we do it is good to aim for the Aristotlean mean, that is to say too much of a virtue can become a flaw as surely as a deficiency in it can. Like too much courage becomes foolhardiness just as too little becomes cowardice.
A healthy level of confidence places one at the centre of their world not at the centre of THE world.

Dervel that post at 13.22

Well, if we're being honest I'd probably be put off by a man in a pick-up truck as the associations aren't to anything I'm fond of at all, so maybe they just asked the wrong women. Me, personally, I'd be more interested in whether he has a nice arse than whether he has a nice car, so again, depends who you ask really.

Like others I wonder why this is meant to be a problem for feminists to solve. I find the idea of trying to change who people are attracted to pretty dodgy in general, and resent the suggestion that I should do so because someone else finds it hard to chat up women.

I'm willing to bet one of the most popular pictures of Tom Hardy on the internet is the one with the dog. Caring, sweet, loving and hot. Not just toxic masculinity.

He's a long way off from being my type but the whole story of how he got the dog is adorable and slotted him into the "good bloke as well as good actor" category in my mind. Still don't fancy him, but if I was at all inclined to the dog would seal the deal much more effectively than any sort of vehicle. In fact if we're giving suggestions then "get a dog" isn't a bad one. I have a friend of a friend who has a tiny, adorable Pomeranian, which is possibly one of the least "manly" dogs you could own, and he seems to meet a quite ridiculous amount of women when he takes it to the park, because lots of people want to pet cute dogs.

The hypothetical alpha male, as described, sounds like he's performing gender as hard as he possibly can, which is tedious to be around. I also know a former special forces dude (Russian Spetsnaz) and he's not particularly macho, but if you ever need someone to organize something that you're looking at going "well this is a big old pile of chaos" he's your guy.

I see non man hating feminists were offering to prove it by selecting certain men

I'll have Patrick Stewart. Thanks

I see non man hating feminists were offering to prove it by selecting certain men

I'll have Patrick Stewart. Thanks

I see non man hating feminists were offering to prove it by selecting certain men

I'll have Patrick Stewart. Thanks

Well I'll have him 3 times obviously

Impressive if he can manage three times at his age :)

Engage?

@SciFiScream

Well I'll have him 3 times obviously

I'll have Nathan Fillion three times then if we're on a sci-fi theme. Who is more attractive because he's a nerd that owns a light sabre. And significantly less attractive if I caught a whiff of Jos' gross attitudes.

You can have my share, SciFiScream, so that should leave him with enough energy and time to recover!

If we're doing sci fi then definitely Keanu Reeves, who will be a very busy man if we're playing this game.

Keanu is a classic example. He was always good looking. But considered a bit blah (by many). The constant stories of him being kind, and decent, and polite, and having strong relationships which have been very difficult... they make him actually attractive.

Also he's an immortal, which is cool.

Yep! He wouldn't be my generation's universal go-to if he wasn't known for being a lovely bloke.