Showing that feminists don't all hate heterosexual male sexuality

[IronPyrites]

OK so I am talking about consensual adult sexuality only.

I think there is a feeling, imo an incorrect one, but still a feeling, among many straight men that feminism wants to impose celibacy on all straight men, and hates and derides any expression of male sexuality.
Now, while I think this is unfounded, I wonder sometimes if there is any mileage in perhaps showing some compassion for the difficulties that many straight men encounter in their personal lives in general, and perhaps even that the pain of sexual or romantic frustration is no less real (and perhaps heightened by societal expectations of the straight male stud) for this group of people than anyone else. I have nothing but contempt for the so-called incels who clearly despise and feel entitled to women, and for men who express disdain for and behave badly to women in other ways, but I do think it may do some good to counter the message that you sometimes hear that feminism is anti-men, and showing that there is probably a societal bias against and fear of male sexuality in general. I hope you understand what I mean.

If you're not paid enough to afford the childcare you need in order to go to work, then its not a choice, is it? That's the point I was making. I think you've misunderstood me.

@BigGee

If you're not paid enough to afford the childcare you need in order to go to work, then its not a choice, is it? That's the point I was making. I think you've misunderstood me.

Of course its a choice. Rarely does someone get everything they want. It seems your saying that unless you get to choose precisely what hours you do with plenty of cash for whatever childcare needs you fancy and plenty of options to do it single or in a couple then its not a choice.

Some of us accept that we have to make sacrifices to do certain things.
We all conform to expectations of society, family and outside influences, that is the very thing that makes a society, of people that behave in a manner that is expected.

To think you are the exception that you should be special in some way and not have to try to follow societal norms so that everyone can live peacefully together is typical, and one of the causes of why society is so divided at present. If you feel the need to put money aside to get out of a relationship then you really haven't grasped the whole idea of marriage. How can you expect your partner to be all in on a relationship if you're not?

There are systemic biases. The assumption you make that the woman will be more of a 'financial risk' than the man is an example.

That wasn't actually a bias, that was based on facts that are fairly difficult to get around. Obviously the chances of a women of childbearing age leaving to have a child for several months or 1 yr + is significantly higher than that of a man doing the same.

The first thing you might learn, is the fact that Mumsnet actually welcomes all women

Did you actually think I didn't know that MN welcomes people from all walks of life? I didn't think we were down to stating the obvious, however there is a reason its not called PeoplesNet, and so its pretty clear thats its primarily aimed at....Mums
It’s probably best if you read a few of the threads on the FWR board and you might have a better understanding of what feminism is, before you try to school them.

Im afraid youre mistaken if you think theres a hard and fast definition of what feminism is or that any 1 group of people are the authority on the subject. I think someones a bit to easily lead.

Men actually leave jobs just as frequently for a whole variety of reasons as do women of childbearing age. Study after study has shown this for many decades now. Often it's for promotion, of course, but that doesn't make any difference to the employer, who has to advertise, recruit and train a new employee just the same .

. In fact, a woman may be keen to come back after maternity leave so a young woman is a safer employment bet than a young man. Women as a statistical class are more loyal employees and stick with a company longer than men. Women aged 50 and over are the most loyal employees of all and the readiest to take risks with innovations in working practices and adapt to change.

Not a lot of people know that. Good employers do, however.

@BigGee

If you're not paid enough to afford the childcare you need in order to go to work, then its not a choice, is it? That's the point I was making. I think you've misunderstood me.

Yeah, sorry for getting sweary. I realised that when I stepped back.

I find that this is the one topic I feel like I cannot talk about with other feminists, who tend to adopt Third wave choice feminism, suggesting that women caught up in income traps just need to choose better, or get sneered at for being a little mummy.

Childcare is incredibly complex. Women's work lives are complex. Mothering is complex.

But anyway, apologies for getting aggro.

Not a lot of people know that. Good employers do, however.

I hope mine does by now - having successfully retained women with decades of experience and knowledge in our specialised skills, while at some points haemorrhaging men to competitors.

ContentiousOne

We're good! I knew it was a misunderstanding.

@BigGee

ContentiousOne

We're good! I knew it was a misunderstanding.

Thanks!

@Alisonjabub You are kind of making the whole argument you appear to be against. Societal norms are and should be entirely negotiable, and yes individuals are special. We are all the center of our own worlds after all.

Specifically when it comes to parenthood there isn’t anything like the pressures on men compared to women. Society would mostly ignore it if I abandoned my child, and merely showing up gets praised. Women on the other hand absolutely every choice and decision is scrutinised. Even as a non feminist I can see that isn’t fair nor equal.