Munroe Bergdorf

[ripples101]

I am trans.

I was a follower of Munroe Bergdorf’s Instagram.

Munroe wrote a post about JK Rowling, calling her a dangerous woman to the trans community. Munroe stayed something along the lines of

“JKR is a dangerous cisgendered, white woman who is causing harm”

I replied to this post, asking why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity.

I wasn’t Abusive. I just felt that it wasn’t necessary, in regards to what Munroe was being critical of, to mention JK Rowling’s ethnicity.

Within minutes my post was deleted and I was blocked.

I am trans, and Munroe has silenced me.

So it seems nothing can be questioned. Any intent to ask a question, or to strike up debate, will be met with being silenced.

This is fast turning into propaganda. This is fast turning into thought crime. This is fast turning into silencing. This is fast turning into something it should never have been.

When a trans person isn’t even able to question another trans person, what chance do “people who belong to sex that menstruate”* have?

• Christ, I don’t even feel like I can use the word women here without being controversial.

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

I feel like I literally have no space left. And I can’t help but feel that a lot of biological woman are feeling the same way. And you have so much more to lose than I ever will, so I simply can’t imagine how this is making you all feel.

Or we could stick to the actual subject of this thread which is Munroe Bergdorf and "black trans women" and you could start a new one about your MRA views about female violence? A novel idea, I know.

It is horrible. It is horrible to point out legitimate concerns about women's rights and be told that, in standing up for yourself, you are bigoted, hateful and prejudiced. And it's horrible that extreme activists are doing their best to silence all intelligent debate on the issues.

I don't hate trans people. I want trans people to be safe in our society. But I don't want a solution that erodes my own sex-based rights.

Yes, I feel the same.

DivineTruth yet it is 3 women a week who die at the hands of their partner or ex-partner in the UK, not 3 men a week.

Please stop gaslighting.

And please stop 'fishing up' articles that you haven't read, haven't fact checked, haven't looked into who is funding them or the methodology.

It's a massive derail and is a daft basis to try to make a point on the back of.

Go on then. Prove to me that women are more violent than men.

I've lost the original aim of the thread a bit tbo. What I would say is that my version of feminism centres women and girls. So not men. It does by definition include transmen but not transwomen.

Yes within that broad category of women and girls, there are many more ways that women and girls can face discrimination. Including colour.

There are lots of potential arguments for a feminist to have. Lots of places to have them. MN is where I come to see the argument about biological reality. It's not to say that is the only argument.

@averysuitablegirl

DivineTruth yet it is 3 women a week who die at the hands of their partner or ex-partner in the UK, not 3 men a week.

Please stop gaslighting.

I have never suggested otherwise, thats a shocking number and far too many. Im certainly not gaslighting thats a bit of an over reaction.

The article i posted is reputable, I have fact checked it (as i myself was suprised and skeptical at first), my apologies if its caused any offence but i was asked where the source was from a statement so i gave it.

@donquixotedelamancha

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

Muslims are not responsible for ISIS, Jews are not responsible for the Israeli government, Lesbians are not responsible for the Ellen DeGeneres Show, Northerners are not responsible for Owen Jones and you are not responsible for the grifters who are pushing this bollocks.

Love this

Anyway, back to MB.

I have no time for that person. They argued for the Women's March to decentre female reproductive systems because it wasn't inclusive of men without them...

I'm not the least bit surprised they've blocked you OP. They're a weapons-grade arsehole.

DivineTruth it is gaslighting to say that 'women are more violent'.

Whatever studies you can find to support this vague view doesn't change the fact that 9/10 homocides are committed by men and that however 'violent' women are they are much less of a risk to men than men simply by virtue of our smaller size, lower muscle bulk and lower levels of testosterone.

Urgh, I'm not going to waste my energy trying to point out some very obvious facts about race and privelege. There are a ton of easy to find and dissect stats and resources, if you cared to listen and learn, rather than centre yourselves.

I am a black woman. Race impacts me more than sex. Almost all other black women will tell you the same.

I am sure, anecdotally and statistically black men (by birth or not) have less privilege, comparatively, than white women.

JK Rowling being one.

Under the guise of BLM, she spoke out to pit an oppressed group against another which holds so much more societal power.

Ignore context and get caught up in pedantics if you want, but this is one of very few forums left where your echo chamber is so devoid of other perspectives, your making all of these perceived intellectual points without truly understanding the society you live in, and you protect yourself from having to explore the actual points posters like me are trying to make.

As a group of who otherwise congratulate themselves on their intellect, your lack of actual education on any issue outside of white womanhood is embarrassing.

To the posters who ask how I know you're all white, well, in my experience, white (or white looking) women are the ONLY group that still seem to grapple with the concept of relative privilege.

The rest of us are still 100 years behind you, fighting against police brutality, the right to give birth with our pain being recognised, our children being educated without bias affecting them, income inequality, a government that isnt overtly racist, our elders not getting deported after a lifetime of service to this country etc......

We haven't been able to worry about a group of people going to massive lengths to change their sex, just to share changing rooms with women and then attack them. In the future. 🙄

As you were.

if you cared to listen and learn, rather than centre yourselves.

I'm not centring myself in a discussion about racism, I'm centring women in a discussion about sexism.

And a quick scan shows a host if irrelevant posts.

Transwomen are not killing women in their homes. Stop shifting the goal posts and talk to the actual question asked.

It's like blaming Christians for Islamic fundamentalism (or vice versa) because they both believe in God.

I suspect the OP has already found out that you're not the trans-neutral group that you pretended to be for the first 10 posts 😂

OP you came to find white allyship but the trans hate couldn't contain itself.

I suggest you try to listen and learn. Following bigots as an 'other's will eventually result in them turning that hate/fear on to you.

The OP has posted on MN for a while, I think you'll find. Why are you telling a trans person what to think?

JK Rowling didn't speak out "under the guise of BLM" and the discussion had literally nothing to do with blackness - JK Rowling is a white woman and transwomen in the UK are almost all white also (even in the USA they are a majority white demographic.)

Urgh, I'm not going to waste my energy trying to point out some very obvious facts about race and privelege. There are a ton of easy to find and dissect stats and resources, if you cared to listen and learn, rather than centre yourselves

Exactly - but apparently it's racist to point out that there is such a thing as white privilege.
Still a bit ...... ummm Oookay at that belter!

And please stop 'fishing up' articles
Can't bloody win whatever you do, can you?
Sources, citations!
Someone does, it's stop fishing up!
Although if it's the "GC" side it's "do your own work, lazybones, I ain't your support human" or something.
Riiiiight.

The phrase to win doesn't mean I'm actually trying to win, it's a well known saying in the UK that whatever you do isn't right - , as somebody got confused last time I used it and thought I was actually trying to win something. Just to be clear.
Also, I did make a point about privilege at the beginning of the thread but everyone jumped and didn't like that, so it's not that I haven't made any points overnight it's just ones that people don't like, or won't acknowledge.
White privilege is a thing, but some don't think it is apparently.
Ok then.

And a quick scan shows a host if irrelevant posts.

Transwomen are not killing women in their homes. Stop shifting the goal posts and talk to the actual question asked.

No one said anything about trans people killing anyone at all? How about you stop misrepresenting the arguments here?

Transwomen are not killing women in their homes.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3950804/Shock-beloved-teacher-transgender-activist-61-charged-stabbing-shooting-death-lesbian-couple-teenage-son-setting-home-fire.html

Since race is in play here somehow you'll note the race of the murderer and the victims.

I'm with Home on listen to other voices. Not just here.
Not just the "GC" ones.
Listen to both sides of the "discussion" for a more balanced view.

JK Rowling didn't speak out "under the guise of BLM" and the discussion had literally nothing to do with blackness - JK Rowling is a white woman and transwomen in the UK are almost all white also (even in the USA they are a majority white demographic.)

This. This discussion, on the Feminist Board of Mumsnet, a female centred site, is about sexism and how the OP, a trans person, was treated by a prominent trans activist for questioning why JK Rowling's race was relevant to her comments about sexism/trans issues.

LemonadeAndDaisyChains why not listen to OP's voice about being silenced by MB then?

The OP found in her own feminist groups, she was expected to prioritize feminism over anti-racism.

That's silly. People can out their energies where they feel called to do so, and putting her energies towards anti-racism is just fine.

If there is a particular anti-racism project near to me, and I am able, I'll support it, just like I always have done.

Confusing an unwillingness to engage in race essentialism or performative faux apology/penance with racism is unfortunate.

Lots of fab black, Asian and other non Anglo thinkers out there who don't demand the Di Angelo approach to racial justice.

Again, Home, we know the OP, as they've been here for a while, and they know us.

So now women can’t talk about women’s rights because racism?

Yes, we all accept racism exists and oppresses black people but that doesn’t mean that women should give up their sex based rights under the equality act, which is what trans people want.

As a white woman I will call out racism whenever I see it, but obviously I don’t see it as often as I would if I were black. Women’s rights directly affect me, so of course I’m more interested in them.

@Home2018 I too am a black woman. So this website isn’t just full of white women. I also am impacted by racism, however that doesn’t mean I am not also impacted by sexism too. We are allowed to worry about more than one issue at a time. Eroding women’s rights is a massive issue for all natal women, regardless of colour. This is what concerns me. It’s not about hating Transwomen. Why don’t TRAs put as much effort into campaigning for 3rd spaces as they do into attacking natal women who don’t conform to their view?

The OP found in her own feminist groups, she was expected to prioritize feminism over anti-racism.

The fuck is this nonsense? I've just read OP's posts on this thread, there are only two and it doesn't say that anywhere.