Munroe Bergdorf

[ripples101]

I am trans.

I was a follower of Munroe Bergdorf’s Instagram.

Munroe wrote a post about JK Rowling, calling her a dangerous woman to the trans community. Munroe stayed something along the lines of

“JKR is a dangerous cisgendered, white woman who is causing harm”

I replied to this post, asking why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity.

I wasn’t Abusive. I just felt that it wasn’t necessary, in regards to what Munroe was being critical of, to mention JK Rowling’s ethnicity.

Within minutes my post was deleted and I was blocked.

I am trans, and Munroe has silenced me.

So it seems nothing can be questioned. Any intent to ask a question, or to strike up debate, will be met with being silenced.

This is fast turning into propaganda. This is fast turning into thought crime. This is fast turning into silencing. This is fast turning into something it should never have been.

When a trans person isn’t even able to question another trans person, what chance do “people who belong to sex that menstruate”* have?

• Christ, I don’t even feel like I can use the word women here without being controversial.

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

I feel like I literally have no space left. And I can’t help but feel that a lot of biological woman are feeling the same way. And you have so much more to lose than I ever will, so I simply can’t imagine how this is making you all feel.

@MadBadDaddy

TehBewilderness You need to read the talk guidelines. I do it every morning before breakfast, thanks. I take a lot on the chin b/c I get that I'm peeing in your picnic basket just by letting you know I'm here. "here" currently being a thread by a trans person, about a trans person commenting on Saint Rowling's intentions regarding Trans persons. I only came to comment on OP's ignorance of their own entitlement but it turns out they have a lot of company. It's like Entitlement 101 in here and the fragility and denial is strong. You might even be a little less angry if you could accept this, but telling angry people to be less angry rarely ends well. Ethnicity is absolutely the main theme of this topic and the one POC that piped up to speak so powerfully from a POC's perspective and address the topic head-on was treated so dismissively that I feel sure she wondered why she bothered.

Actually we LOVE posters like you.

You give us the opportunity to demonstrate our arguments to the lurkers.

I originally came her to ‘educate myself’ on behest of trans activists. I lurked for months before I signed up.

What I learned by lurking was that the TRA argument made absolutely no sense. It just doesn’t fit the the feminist version of the ‘real life test’.

So when posters like you or lemonade show up to argue with us, we aren’t doing it to convince you, we are exploiting the opportunity to demonstrate your batshittery to the audience.

If we didn’t find you useful, we could just ignore you ¯\(ツ)/¯

Hey lurkers! Critical theory (postmodern philosophy) is bollocks - that includes Critical Race Theory and Critical Gender Theory.

Watch this, it’s long, but brilliant (and yes, it’s two white men talking! but I’m recommending it for the ideas, not the identity politics - watch it, it will set you free:

@Highperbolay

I don't think it is relevant to this thread. OP just doesn't get why they have been denied access to MB despite flashing their 'trans' badge.

Of course its relevant, it's the exact question that ripples asked Munroe? Does being white mean JKR should not be listened to on women's issues? That is what Munroe is saying - that the fact that JKR is white means that any argument she has is not credible.

Do you agree? Do you think that MB, as a biological male, is allowed to dictate who does and doesn't have a legitimate voice on womens issues. And if not, surely you then agree that MB shouldn't be blocking people for asking that question?

Munroe posted a few paragraphs, talking about JKR's 'right' to talk about TRANS issues.

The offending part:
"I want to remind everyone that J.K. Rowling is an author of fiction. She is not an expert on this subject, she is a wealthy, cisgender, heterosexual white woman with a vested interest in winding back trans healthcare. First it'll be the kids, then it'll be the adults.J.K. Rowling is dangerous.
...says nothing about women's issues.

Yes, plucking the word 'white' out of that is unlikely to get you treated as a sincere commenter posting in good faith.

It’s just white privilege this and white fragility that

Erm, hello?!
Yes. Yes it is that because that's what it's about!
OP asked why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity
If people don't really want to know what race or whiteness has to do with it, why ask?
I can't even.

Are we to understand that you agree with MB that women's rights are all trans issues and women should not speak of them if they are white?

Bewilderness
Are you sat reading from your script rules book or something, this is utterly bonkers.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong

3 hours? Nice try, fat chance

MadBadDaddy

You certainly have a flair for odd, boring anecdotes that have absolutely nothing to do with what is being discussed.

And you do nothing but play the intersectionality playbook to the t -> oppressed person says something, it must be true and anyone less oppressed cannot challenge it -> more oppressed person is always right because they can always play oppression olympics and win.

we aren’t doing it to convince you, we are exploiting the opportunity to demonstrate your batshittery to the audience

The utter lack of self awareness is staggering.
You do realise that works two ways, right?
You might think differing points are batshittery but by God, this thread shows up what it's like if you say anything against groupthink!
There's probably a rule in that roolz guidebook for that which Bewilderness is sat reeling off

I'm confused, is the OP wrong, J. K. Rowling wrong and everyone here wrong because of white frailty, entitlement 101, or white privilege? Or is it to do with being unaccountably angry because we're in denial, or is it about timing due to BLM? Or Pride? Or because someone else's step dad is a sexist twat?

All these reasons to shut up because women are saying no.

No.

@MadBadDaddy

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong

3 hours? Nice try, fat chance

I didn’t ask you to watch it, I posted it expressly for the lurkers.

I don’t give a rats arse about your opinions, they are completely irrelevant to me and my life.

Although, funnily enough, part of the conversation I just posted directly addresses short internet attention spans and the fact that most people fail to look beyond the headlines. Once you start looking, you realise how much shit many activists are full of:

"Actually we LOVE posters like you.

You give us the opportunity to demonstrate our arguments to the lurkers.

I originally came her to ‘educate myself’ on behest of trans activists. I lurked for months before I signed up."

Incidentally, I originally came here when MRAs on another board told me all the crazy feminists live here. I created an account, regurgitated the same arguments they used and got destroyed (well figuratively) and in the process learned that actually some of the most reasonable, deductive people post here, and made this account after some time lurking. Which is simultaneously testament to why they want to silence women - people who actually listen without bias will inevitably agree with them.

...says nothing about women's issues.

Only because Munroe, you and other TRAs refuse to accept there is such a thing as women's issues. How can there be when women don't exist by definition in your eyes?

So you frame everything as trans issues. In reality though this is simply not true. Your ideological stance does clash with women's rights, it is harmful to women and girls - which can be evidenced in hundreds of different ways at this point.

So we're not going to shut up about it. Flinging around 'white feminism' isn't going to change that. We have no plans to pack up and allow even more legislation to be insidiously rewritten (mostly by white males it should be noted).

DuDuDu - yes, I was the same. Twitter telling me about this dangerous, evil place. Then I looked. And I stayed.

Actually we LOVE posters like you.

You give us the opportunity to demonstrate our arguments to the lurkers.

I originally came her to ‘educate myself’ on behest of trans activists. I lurked for months before I signed up.

Exactly. Which is why this board is responsible for a twelvefold increase in, what was it, one year, to the entire site.

There's a reason why many women say I came for the nappy advice, and stayed for the feminism.

I wouldn't waste my time on threads like these, ever, if I didn't know the result in advance.

Welcome to the radicalization portal. We have cake!

I had fun one day trying to explain critical race theory to my DH, who's not white. There was a lot of "what?!!" and "but that's stupid, though".

@Datun

Actually we LOVE posters like you.

You give us the opportunity to demonstrate our arguments to the lurkers.

I originally came her to ‘educate myself’ on behest of trans activists. I lurked for months before I signed up.

Exactly. Which is why this board is responsible for a twelvefold increase in, what was it, one year, to the entire site.

There's a reason why many women say I came for the nappy advice, and stayed for the feminism.

I wouldn't waste my time on threads like these, ever, if I didn't know the result in advance.

Ripples, my post wasn't meant to sound callous. I would absolutely have posted, but not spent this amount of time refuting MBD's nonsense.

Like 'fillies'.

vested interest

Bergdorf also claims JKR has a vested interest in rolling back trans health care. What does Bergdorf think vested interest means? JKR has no "vested" interest in this.

Bergdorf is out of depth in any sort of public speaking role. It reminds me of the stuff Jenn Smith, a Canadian transwomen says about people being dazzled and hypnotised by the giant glaring headlamps upfront. No one really wants to hear the nonsense bergdorf comes out with. They are just staring at the headlamps.

Well, if we're all sharing stories about how we came to be here, I've been an active poster on all the boards for absolute years now.
Came via hearing about MN on a thread on Nethuns (Netmums) and came for a nosey.
Never left
Always in AIBU and Chat, but only past few years after hearing about Man Friday and peeking into the Feminism threads as well.
about WTF is happening, why are women being erased?
Made for pretty frightening reading.
Until you realise by reading both sides, lots of different sources, that trans and even TRA's are actually people too.
I don't care if no-one believes me, it's the truth.

You seem to find women's concerns just hilarious Lemonade. It would be good to hear your empathy and thoughts/ideas on solutions instead of just giggling your way through a thread.

that trans and even TRA's are actually people too.
Has anyone suggested they are not?

Critical Race Theory is beyond stupid.

Worse than that, when it gets into the real world it actively harms progress towards equality.

I listened to this earlier. I really appreciate Coleman Hughes’ calm voice and clear focus on statistics (and the facts behind the statistics):

DuDuDu

Graham Lindsay is also part of a group discussion "is intersectionality a religion", he is really great, thanks for linking that video Rogan.

I wouldn't waste my time on threads like these, ever, if I didn't know the result in advance

Same, because I know it works in reverse too. As people have told me.
Just like you must know, as people have said it to you too but the other way round.