Munroe Bergdorf

[ripples101]

I am trans.

I was a follower of Munroe Bergdorf’s Instagram.

Munroe wrote a post about JK Rowling, calling her a dangerous woman to the trans community. Munroe stayed something along the lines of

“JKR is a dangerous cisgendered, white woman who is causing harm”

I replied to this post, asking why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity.

I wasn’t Abusive. I just felt that it wasn’t necessary, in regards to what Munroe was being critical of, to mention JK Rowling’s ethnicity.

Within minutes my post was deleted and I was blocked.

I am trans, and Munroe has silenced me.

So it seems nothing can be questioned. Any intent to ask a question, or to strike up debate, will be met with being silenced.

This is fast turning into propaganda. This is fast turning into thought crime. This is fast turning into silencing. This is fast turning into something it should never have been.

When a trans person isn’t even able to question another trans person, what chance do “people who belong to sex that menstruate”* have?

• Christ, I don’t even feel like I can use the word women here without being controversial.

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

I feel like I literally have no space left. And I can’t help but feel that a lot of biological woman are feeling the same way. And you have so much more to lose than I ever will, so I simply can’t imagine how this is making you all feel.

the one POC that piped up to speak so powerfully from a POC's perspective and address the topic head-on

The one who had most of her facts demonstrably wrong? Or the other black female poster who said she didn't agree with her post?

I'm guessing, it's the one you personally agreed with.

The bone of contention, instigated by OP, is whether MB should have used the term 'white' to describe JKR in an instagram post, and whether OP was justified in questioning MB about it. Everything else has billowed out around this.

For a POC's use of the term 'white' to be seen as 'silencing' is what? "Peak fragility"?

These people are furious and I mean furious that a powerful woman has come out in support of women and girls. They are so used to being able to threaten women with employment disciplinaries or taking them to court or being 'cancelled' and in return they often get the 'oh I'm sorry, I will endeavour to educate myself, I promise to do better'. Now they are faced with a woman to whom they can't do any of that, she is too powerful to cancel and they just don't know what to do about it.

So the only thing they can do is claim that her power and influence itself is the reason that she shouldn't be allowed to speak.

That, and also printing absolute outright lies about her position in order to hope that some shit sticks. Honestly if I were JKR I would seriously be considering suing Glamour for printing that bit about what Munroe said about her thinking that only women with uteruses are women. It's a total, provable lie and is libel isn't it?

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

Entitlement 101 is an excellent description of MB.

A biological male telling a woman she can't talk about women's issues because she's the wrong colour.

And the utter shock of a self confessed trans rights activist backing them up 🤣🤣🤣

You need to read the talk guidelines

Guidelines say nothing about criticising someone's tone, or disagreeing with them - personal attacks on the other hand, not so ,much and that is in the guidelines.

For a POC's use of the term 'white' to be seen as 'silencing' is what? "Peak fragility"?

Munroe, a biological male, is saying that JKR cannot speak about women's issues because she is white. You can see why women might have a problem with that right? Why is JKRs skin colour relevant to her defence of women's rights?

And what right does Munroe, a biological male, have to tell a woman that she can't speak about women's rights?

all those women blindly supporting MB who don’t realise that she hates them

Munroe hates all women?
That's a bit of a..... jump shall we say.
How on earth do you jump to that conclusion?
What are you basing that on

Probably from reading that Glamour interview.

What’s your take on it?

I am always interested to hear a transwoman's proposals for how to deal with issues that relate specifically to female biology. Considering some believe that they should be 'women's officers' and represent female's interests on any panel or board.

"For a POC's use of the term 'white' to be seen as 'silencing' is what? "Peak fragility"?"

A completely irrelevant fact is used to attack but you can't even point out it is irrelevant - MadBadDaddy. What a surprise.

OP started a thread about how butthurt they felt about being blocked for "Just asking a polite question". If random white people can't ask a POC to justify adding racial considerations into their opinion then Why, You Just Can't Ask Any Questions At All Can You?

I just keep picturing the look on my bemused stepfathers face as he glazes over whilst having it explained for the nth time how you can't refer to women as 'Fillies' any more or make that joke that upsets everyone in the room not currently holding a pint of bitter.

You still haven't explained why Munroe feels able to speak for women but JKR can't because she's white. Why is that?

Ripples has just as much right to start threads as anyone else does.

Do you think a white woman has the right to speak about womens issues MadBadDaddy?

It would be great if you could answer that question.

It's like Entitlement 101 in here and the fragility and denial is strong. You might even be a little less angry if you could accept this, but telling angry people to be less angry rarely ends well.

Ohhh that's funny! Well, apart from this bit:

telling angry people to be less angry rarely ends well.

I tried to write a response to that but I just don't have one. I feel I should be surprised that a self-defined TRA has come onto FWR to say that but the lack of self-awareness just doesn't surprise me in the same way any more.

Ripples has just as much right to start threads as anyone else does

Never said they hadn't.

@MadBadDaddy

The bone of contention, instigated by OP, is whether MB should have used the term 'white' to describe JKR in an instagram post, and whether OP was justified in questioning MB about it. Everything else has billowed out around this.

For a POC's use of the term 'white' to be seen as 'silencing' is what? "Peak fragility"?

It’s the blocking that’s silencing, not the use of ‘white (which is used as dismissal, rather than silencing).

Are you wilfully misrepresenting OPs words?

@OvaHere

You still haven't explained why Munroe feels able to speak for women but JKR can't because she's white. Why is that?

You still haven't explained why Munroe feels able to speak for women but JKR can't because she's white. Why is that? I don't think it is relevant to this thread. OP just doesn't get why they have been denied access to MB despite flashing their 'trans' badge.

Ripples has just as much right to start threads as anyone else does. absolutely they do, but using their own ignorance as a launchpad for an impotent pile-on of a hate icon is harmful all round.

I tried to write a response to that but I just don't have one. I feel I should be surprised that a self-defined TRA has come onto FWR to say that but the lack of self-awareness just doesn't surprise me in the same way any more.

No, me neither.

@MadBadDaddy I don’t think there is any point in trying to discuss this further. Your arguments make no sense. It’s just white privilege this and white fragility that. Instead of just using those terms to dismiss what is being said (I get the impression you think white people - if indeed all the posters on here are white, I’m not - have nothing of value to say simply because they are white) why don’t you actually try to engage with them and address the points they are making.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong

Are you wilfully misrepresenting OPs words?

I don't think it's me doing that. I'm bringing the thread back on-topic.

When I talk about 'entitlement'on this thread I'm talking about White Privilege.

I don't think it is relevant to this thread. OP just doesn't get why they have been denied access to MB despite flashing their 'trans' badge.

Of course its relevant, it's the exact question that ripples asked Munroe? Does being white mean JKR should not be listened to on women's issues? That is what Munroe is saying - that the fact that JKR is white means that any argument she has is not credible.

Do you agree? Do you think that MB, as a biological male, is allowed to dictate who does and doesn't have a legitimate voice on womens issues. And if not, surely you then agree that MB shouldn't be blocking people for asking that question?

[quote HarryHarry]@MadBadDaddy I don’t think there is any point in trying to discuss this further. Your arguments make no sense. It’s just white privilege this and white fragility that. Instead of just using those terms to dismiss what is being said (I get the impression you think white people - if indeed all the posters on here are white, I’m not - have nothing of value to say simply because they are white) why don’t you actually try to engage with them and address the points they are making.[/quote]
I'm addressing the point the OP raised.

It’s just white privilege this and white fragility that

I completely agree.

Going back to the OP.

I feel like I literally have no space left. And I can’t help but feel that a lot of biological woman are feeling the same way. And you have so much more to lose than I ever will, so I simply can’t imagine how this is making you all feel.

It's not just you, and in terms of how it's making many people feel the answer is "very, very frustrated". I do feel like the tide is starting to turn though and a lot of people are getting very tired of cancel culture. Are you on Spinster? If not it might be worth signing up, as that's another space where it's possible to actually talk about this stuff.

I tried to write a response to that but I just don't have one. I feel I should be surprised that a self-defined TRA has come onto FWR to say that but the lack of self-awareness just doesn't surprise me in the same way any more.

13th rule of misogyny: Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.
Don't forget the 9th: Men always know the real reason for everything women say and do.