Munroe Bergdorf

[ripples101]

I am trans.

I was a follower of Munroe Bergdorf’s Instagram.

Munroe wrote a post about JK Rowling, calling her a dangerous woman to the trans community. Munroe stayed something along the lines of

“JKR is a dangerous cisgendered, white woman who is causing harm”

I replied to this post, asking why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity.

I wasn’t Abusive. I just felt that it wasn’t necessary, in regards to what Munroe was being critical of, to mention JK Rowling’s ethnicity.

Within minutes my post was deleted and I was blocked.

I am trans, and Munroe has silenced me.

So it seems nothing can be questioned. Any intent to ask a question, or to strike up debate, will be met with being silenced.

This is fast turning into propaganda. This is fast turning into thought crime. This is fast turning into silencing. This is fast turning into something it should never have been.

When a trans person isn’t even able to question another trans person, what chance do “people who belong to sex that menstruate”* have?

• Christ, I don’t even feel like I can use the word women here without being controversial.

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

I feel like I literally have no space left. And I can’t help but feel that a lot of biological woman are feeling the same way. And you have so much more to lose than I ever will, so I simply can’t imagine how this is making you all feel.

I don't think it'll be long before trans people will start to distance themselves from the activists who are the most vocal group - especially on Twitter. All of the trans men and women I have spoken too some I consider dear friends are mortified by the movement.

We are seeing violent sexualised threats, hideous pornographic pictures posted to attack people and people believe they are a representation of the while trans community!

The activists seem to be a branch of their own. I think it's largely supported by men with fetishes, men's rights activists and young and impressionable woke folk who genuinely believe they're on "the right side of history"

I don't see any of them campaigning for trans rights, just vicious attacks on people who refuse their agenda.

They appear to be a pool of people who're extremely narcisitic and somewhat insecure - and that makes for a dangerous cocktail. They appear to have adopted the tactics of abusive men, they read from the same script.

It starts with victimhood, use inflated or outright lies regarding suicide in the trans community to manipulate and silence people and then escalate to insidious and malicious attacks. Pushing people out of their jobs and deplatforming. Yet they seem to be selective of the people they target (women usually)

They are absolutely repugnant. And Munroe is very much the worst of the worst - it doesn't matter what Munroe does, or says - no matter how odious. And should you try and call them out, it will be spun straight back around on you and you'll be called racist/transphobic/hateful/bigoted etc a narcissist will never accept they are in the wrong so will assume you're the problem however they have to twist things to make it so.

Munroe and jameela jamil are the only strangers I have come across that create a hugely visceral reaction in me. I dare say I actively hate them.

They also seem to want people to think that everyone and everything is hateful and transphobic and I cannot wait for the day they fade into obscurity.

I'm pleased at least that people are slowly begining to see the obvious homophobia that pours out of the TRAs.

Sorry I needed to get that off my chest!

Putting words in other people's mouths is not a differing opinions.

Isn't saying 'we see you' putting words in other people's mouths?

i lost the will to live a few pages ago....can I assume i can safely condense this down to

"SHUT UP WOMEN" just to save time?

Yes.

The only thing that ever matters to Munroe is Munroe. They have no business wading into a discussion of women’s rights and they try to police women’s language.

A pornified presentation of femininity doesn’t make someone a woman. But Bergdorf never was one to stay in their lane.

@SapphosRock

Putting words in other people's mouths is not a differing opinions.

Isn't saying 'we see you' putting words in other people's mouths?

No, I was speaking for those of us who had clearly indicated that we recognized what we were seeing the MRA/TRA doing. Did you miss it?

All of the trans men and women I have spoken too some I consider dear friends are mortified by the movement.

Indeed. And this is exactly what happened to ripples and why they started this thread.

This is fast turning into propaganda. This is fast turning into thought crime. This is fast turning into silencing. This is fast turning into something it should never have been.

Christ, I don’t even feel like I can use the word women here without being controversial.

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

And for this, ripples was insulted by a TRA using sexist and transphobic abuse. Called mawkish, pathetic, and any number of words.

The only thing I can say is that it is being recognised now.

Everywhere.

The disgusting abuse levelled at people who disagree with this ideology is no longer to be tolerated.

Onthebrink87, surely the fragrant SH and Squealer Harrop have a similar effect? I never thought I could so viscerally loathe someone I'd never met until they pinged on my radar.

Isn't saying 'we see you' putting words in other people's mouths?

No, not really. It's saying we know exactly what some people are doing. Putting words into mouths is quite different.

I recall that MBD arrived here on a euphoric high they got from Reddit silencing 65,000 women. We know that the same people wish to remove this board and even Mumsnet as a whole entity.

YY.

To summarise MB's position:

I will talk about being a woman because I feel like one.

You may not talk about women because you're a white one.

Yep.

To reiterate this again:

A biological male is telling a female that she is not allowed to talk about women's issues because she is white and that said biological man's contributions to women's issues are more valid than the female's.

You could not make this shit up.

Oh FFS there's literally a rule read out of a mythical handbook for everything to absolve women from any blame whatsoever, isn't there?
I say this as a woman lol

Imagine if JKR started tweeting and giving interviews about how BLM should be run, and how a certain type of anti-racist movement is 'wrong' because it doesn't centre white people. Munroe and many others would, quite rightly, lose their shit.

And yet this is exactly what Munroe is doing to women.

What exactly does Munroe bring to the table when it comes to women's issues? What is it that gives Munroe the right to tell JKR that she is wrong about feminism?

Bergdorf believes Bergdorf has the right to school all women about feminism. See several articles in Grazia and Glamour.

To a POC or their allies, JKR being white means she is a member of the oppressing class. JKR hasn't acknowledged this privilege, her timing during the BLM protests came without any acknowledgment in their direction that she might be distracting from their efforts.

Rowling's no doubt capable of sufficiently nuanced and flexible thinking to be sorry about racialised police brutality in the United States AND still find room to talk about poor lawmaking and policy capture in Scotland. She's also probably pretty well organised, having written all those big books - likely she can hit up a Sheku Bayoh fundraiser in the morning and still tweet about feminism in the afternoon. And she's an ancient who probably remembers first-hand how it was way back in the dark ages when Twitter only allowed 140 characters. She's not going to talk about everything she's ever done and thought in every single tweet.

TehBewilderness
You need to read the talk guidelines. I do it every morning before breakfast, thanks.
I take a lot on the chin b/c I get that I'm peeing in your picnic basket just by letting you know I'm here. "here" currently being a thread by a trans person, about a trans person commenting on Saint Rowling's intentions regarding Trans persons. I only came to comment on OP's ignorance of their own entitlement but it turns out they have a lot of company.
It's like Entitlement 101 in here and the fragility and denial is strong. You might even be a little less angry if you could accept this, but telling angry people to be less angry rarely ends well.
Ethnicity is absolutely the main theme of this topic and the one POC that piped up to speak so powerfully from a POC's perspective and address the topic head-on was treated so dismissively that I feel sure she wondered why she bothered.

I feel sorry for ;but actually mostly anger towards) all those women blindly supporting MB who don’t realise that she hates them.

It's like Entitlement 101 in here and the fragility and denial is strong. You might even be a little less angry if you could accept this,

It might be a little less tedious if you weren't five billionth person to come onto a parenting forum, run to the feminist section, and say it.

Honestly, I could wallpaper my entire house if these identical comments were on post-it notes and not behind a screen.

It's like Entitlement 101 in here and the fragility and denial is strong.

Funnily enough the vast majority of women here feel the same about you.

@OvaHere

It's like Entitlement 101 in here and the fragility and denial is strong.

Funnily enough the vast majority of women here feel the same about you.

It's often noted how we don't need to go onto PistonHeads, or any of the trans forums and demand attention.

Entitlement 101 is an excellent description of MB.

A biological male telling a woman she can't talk about women's issues because she's the wrong colour.

It's like Entitlement 101 in here and the fragility and denial is strong

The projection is impressive the only thing which is.

The drive by white feminist slagging off has been going on here for years.

A quick google brought up this piece from seven years ago which is pretty much word for word the plopping this thread got.

rewire.news/article/2013/07/28/women-of-color-and-feminism-a-history-lesson-and-way-forward/

These polemics seem to not be very disconnected from the real world of my experience and I know that I'm not alone in this.

Stray "not" in there.

I wonder what Munroe proposes as the solution to the disproportionate maternal death rate in black British women?

Grazia should ask sometime - we’d only get blocked if we asked on Instagram.

Because white has become an insult in the church of intersectionality.

White = privilege

privilege = bad

I.e. by pointing out someone is white, you accuse them of having privilege, and by accusing them of having privilege you are saying they should listen to you (read: shut the fuck up and do as you say)

It is particularly necessary to accuse women of this, because in some perverse twist women are actually recognized as being oppressed (the worst boogeyman is the 'cishet white male', preferably middle-aged), and men don't want to challenge that so instead they just invent a lot of other oppression axes so that they can freely talk over women, despite women being oppressed.