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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Munroe Bergdorf

999 replies

ripples101 · 06/07/2020 21:34

I am trans.

I was a follower of Munroe Bergdorf’s Instagram.

Munroe wrote a post about JK Rowling, calling her a dangerous woman to the trans community. Munroe stayed something along the lines of

“JKR is a dangerous cisgendered, white woman who is causing harm”

I replied to this post, asking why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity.

I wasn’t Abusive. I just felt that it wasn’t necessary, in regards to what Munroe was being critical of, to mention JK Rowling’s ethnicity.

Within minutes my post was deleted and I was blocked.

I am trans, and Munroe has silenced me.

So it seems nothing can be questioned. Any intent to ask a question, or to strike up debate, will be met with being silenced.

This is fast turning into propaganda. This is fast turning into thought crime. This is fast turning into silencing. This is fast turning into something it should never have been.

When a trans person isn’t even able to question another trans person, what chance do “people who belong to sex that menstruate”* have?

  • Christ, I don’t even feel like I can use the word women here without being controversial.

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

I feel like I literally have no space left. And I can’t help but feel that a lot of biological woman are feeling the same way. And you have so much more to lose than I ever will, so I simply can’t imagine how this is making you all feel.

OP posts:
RufustheRowlingReindeer · 06/07/2020 23:26

I bet that wasnt the response rosie was expecting

HH160bpm · 06/07/2020 23:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RufustheRowlingReindeer · 06/07/2020 23:30

Hopefully rosie can take the high road

HH160bpm · 06/07/2020 23:31

It reminds me of the Pope slap.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 06/07/2020 23:35

Crikey, there is some hysterical stuff going on on Twitter. I just had a squizz. Lots of capital letters. Massive tantrums.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/07/2020 23:37

Point us in the right direction, Scrimshaw? I'd assume media coverage would lead to toys out of pram but if there are particularly entertaining examples please share!

Winesalot · 06/07/2020 23:37

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

Crikey, there is some hysterical stuff going on on Twitter. I just had a squizz. Lots of capital letters. Massive tantrums.
And JKR is relentless.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/07/2020 23:39

Here is a woman desperately trying to be an 'ally' to Munroe and Munroe's reply.

Haha, suck it up, dear.

ErrolTheDragon · 06/07/2020 23:40
  • I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

I feel like I literally have no space left.*

Maybe - and I'm not suggesting this is easy - more trans people like you need to represent yourselves, and claim your own space? There are some who do - maybe they're who you should identify alongside?

Apileofballyhoo · 06/07/2020 23:41

Biological woman advantages my arse. Fuck's sake.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/07/2020 23:44

Btw, Munroe, I'm happy to say she is and is speaking for most of us.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/07/2020 23:45

Rowling is speaking for me. The person groveling for Munroe's approval, no.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/07/2020 23:49

Yes, sorry I could have made that clearer!

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/07/2020 23:51

It was clear!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/07/2020 23:52

Love that it's not even enough to bow to gender and "speak up" as a "cis woman" ally against your obstinate gender-unconvinced peers, you have to have a performance review to see whether it was "dynamic and effective" Grin

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/07/2020 23:54

I'm going to need a summary of the salary and benefits package for this position before deciding whether or not I want to submit an application.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 06/07/2020 23:56

Just stuff MB had retweeted, really, Kittens.

And yes, JKR is more magnificnt by the day. I hope she's alright.

Cis Woman Ally? Is that an eighties pop hair band?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/07/2020 23:58

I'm going to need a summary of the salary and benefits package for this position before deciding whether or not I want to submit an application.

It would have to be mighty impressive for me!

PamDenick · 07/07/2020 00:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LemonadeAndDaisyChains · 07/07/2020 00:01

You can almost hear Munroe hissing the words 'cis, straight, white women' with venom

How, from that screenshot do you get she's hissing venom?
It was just a comment, what do you get from try to paint someone like that?
We're clearly reading different comments.
I read no malice.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/07/2020 00:01

Dynamic and Effective could be Apprentice Team names.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/07/2020 00:04

I didn't get 'hissing venom' from that tweet, tbh, more like oozing contempt (while pretending all those words, not just 'white', convey privilege).

notyourhandmaid · 07/07/2020 00:05

ripples101, I've read some of your other posts here so I know this is not the first time you've seen this happen with other trans people by a long shot, but I'm sorry that you've had another reminder of just how authoritarian this all is. The ideology is so toxic.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 07/07/2020 00:06

Can I be the captain of Team Snark? We'll also need a Team Can't Be Arsed and a Team Do It Yourself.

Home2018 · 07/07/2020 00:07

This thread is so blind its hilarious.

In wider feminist circles, I have observed that minority women (by and large) do not have the same concern for the trans community as white feminists do, and I often question why that is.

As a black woman, I'm still focusing on the power structures that ACTUALLY impact me, not those which may.

This really is the crux of a gap between white feminists and everyone else.

The idea that that white women are actually talking about the privilege they dont have over men of colour (or black men specifically) is so blind it's scary.

Have you looked at the world around you for what it currently is, not what you're fearful of it becoming.

I read a recent thread in which most posters spoke about voting Conservative on this one 'potential' issue, whilst ignoring ALL of the actual issues the Conservatives have caused which are literally ruining the lives of the counties most vulnerable women, right now.

The MN feminist board is such an echo chamber and it's becoming more and more apparent the day.

It has gone from a reasonable feminist board to a largely transphobic one, with posters supporting and stopping each other from looking inwards.

The usual response to anything that asks you to look at other peoples perspectives is 'why are women always blamed for....' or 'it's not the job of women to put anyone before themselves..."

But, it is the job of the privileged to consider others, always.

Especially if you are pertaining to belong to a wider group, as you are under feminism.

The reason Munroe made that very obvious comment was because under the gaze of BLM, JK Rowling should use her position of power to decide whether her words, at this moment, are creating more space for an already marginalised group to come under more attack.

BLACK trans women are being murdered at alarming rates. This is fact. Trans women ARE NOT killing cis gender women as trend.

Yes, spend all this time and energy on pedantics if you want, but, as a human being, what are you doing to speak on current injustices and communities under attack?

There are activists that advocate on the behalf of the oppressed and there are activists that speak to maintain thier position of privilege.

How are trans women oppressing cis gender women? Search this board and there is very little focus on transwomen vs cis gendered men, the actual group oppressing you.

From the outside, it's clear that this 'feminist' space is here to protect your privilege, not to advocate for any other oppressed group. Including women of colour, or, at this very moment black women specifically.

I always read this crap about BLM (even though it's not a centralised organisation) being harmful to black women, as though we cant make up our own minds. The only people that speak on this are white, and it's such an obvious cop out, used as an excuse to stop them having to take part in the current conversation and look at the ways in which they play into structural racism.

Just because you are a 'woke' feminist, it doesn't mean you aren't racist or that you dont use your privilege to uphold racist systems. The conversation is moving from being non racist to being actively anti racist, and at this moment, her words spoke to her privilege, whilst doing nothing to focus on black lives (male or female).

Munroe, as a black person, is correct to use her position to point that out.

Munroe, at points in her life, has had privilege over cis women. At this point, Munroe does not have that privilege. Come out of your hateful bubble. Can you really imagine what it would feel like to exist in world where the vast majority of people still laugh and question your very existence. I do not think there is a person that suffers more on this earth than a black cis woman, yet, I would still rather this space vs becoming a transwoman.

What you're so scared of I do not know. But what I do know is those that have presided over the most hateful acts in history have almost always done so because of fear.

If nothing else, question whether you're acting because of something that exists, or that you fear will come to fruition.

And OP, you've run to the wrong place. Tomorrow, the hate will turn towards you. You're clearly uncomfortable with the race conversations that are happening at the moment. Do some reading on race and try and understand why Munro might have said what she did if understanding is your intention. Ask people in your community. You wont get a reasonable or educated answer here, although, if you want it reaffirmed that white women/people have no privilege then you're in the right place.