Munroe Bergdorf

[ripples101]

I am trans.

I was a follower of Munroe Bergdorf’s Instagram.

Munroe wrote a post about JK Rowling, calling her a dangerous woman to the trans community. Munroe stayed something along the lines of

“JKR is a dangerous cisgendered, white woman who is causing harm”

I replied to this post, asking why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity.

I wasn’t Abusive. I just felt that it wasn’t necessary, in regards to what Munroe was being critical of, to mention JK Rowling’s ethnicity.

Within minutes my post was deleted and I was blocked.

I am trans, and Munroe has silenced me.

So it seems nothing can be questioned. Any intent to ask a question, or to strike up debate, will be met with being silenced.

This is fast turning into propaganda. This is fast turning into thought crime. This is fast turning into silencing. This is fast turning into something it should never have been.

When a trans person isn’t even able to question another trans person, what chance do “people who belong to sex that menstruate”* have?

• Christ, I don’t even feel like I can use the word women here without being controversial.

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

I feel like I literally have no space left. And I can’t help but feel that a lot of biological woman are feeling the same way. And you have so much more to lose than I ever will, so I simply can’t imagine how this is making you all feel.

MadBadDaddy

Could you please explain where in the timetable anyone is allowed to speak up for disabled people of any race?

Some people really do love labels don't they

Ok, one more time...how does JKR being white have any bearing on her stance on women’s rights?

Not her stance on BLM, her stance on women’s rights. It’s a clear question.

To a POC or their allies, JKR being white means she is a member of the oppressing class

I'd say this
Also yes, she's a woman, so of course speaking on women's rights fine - but if you're a biological, white woman, and then there's a black trans woman, of course said black trans woman is probably going to think "you have white, biological privilege, talking about trans issues"
I'd think it'd seem like talking about something that doesn't affect you/couldn't understand but doing it anyway and riding roughshod over people's rights.
(Yes, I know was talking about women's rights, but this is where it gets conflated)

OPs take sits comfortably alongside "I don't see colour, why should you?" or "Surely all lives matter?" Sentiments like these mark you out as part of the problem, not the solution. Getting blocked was fair dinkum. This thread should have been 1 page long
Agree

"JKR hasn't acknowledged this privilege."

I just want to fall about laughing at the piety of this language.

And to think, if only MB had replied to Ripples’ question we wouldn’t need to be having this discussion.

And to think, if only MB had replied to Ripples’ question we wouldn’t need to be having this discussion

Give over, seriously?!
The question got answered. Not by MB, admittedly, but it still got answered.
There'd no doubt be pages of this on her page too if she'd answered, no wonder she got trigger happy with the block finger lol

Well i know i have white privilege

Is there a formal way i should announce it

Do i need to announce it if i am talking about a different subject?

Or does it depend who I’m talking to about this different subject.

So there is white privilege and male privilege ...i get them, deffo able bodied privilege. Is that it?

@FantaOra

"JKR hasn't acknowledged this privilege."

I just want to fall about laughing at the piety of this language.

I know, right. Where does MB acknowledge their male privilege?

"Where does MB acknowledge their male privilege?"

Not on Instagram that's for sure..

And we're back to totting up points on the oppression scale to decide who can talk.

The idea that women have biological privilege is super tone deaf and ignores the reality of what female biology has meant for women and girls on reality all over the world and through history.

Oppression, pain, servitude, poverty, sexual slavery, injury and death being some examples.

No one who cares about women overlooks these things or frames them as trivial.

I note Monroe trivialises this as well, incidentally.

I know, right. Where does MB acknowledge their male privilege?

It's been converted into non privilege by the mysterious mechanism that was never explained.

@PotholeParadise

MadBadDaddy

Could you please explain where in the timetable anyone is allowed to speak up for disabled people of any race?

The problem with identity politics is that the most vulnerable people of all, children under the age of one, children in the ‘looked after’ system, children in poverty, the very elderly (especially those with dementia) and those who are severely disabled are still voiceless.

Fucked up, isn’t it?

At least JK’s charitable work helps people in these groups, MB’s activism is all about Bergdorf.

I'm still waiting for the list of women's rights that white women are allowed to talk about.

I'm disabled so if anyone on the thread isn't they're not allowed to speak.

Unless they have more than one point from other axes of oppression. Is that how it works?

When a woman from Somalia supports JKR she gets told she shouldn't speak because she is 'cis'.

Bottom line is women who question areas of the push for legal changes for trans people, get told to STFU, whoever they are.

The idea that women have biological privilege is super tone deaf and ignores the reality of what female biology has meant for women and girls on reality all over the world and through history.

They don't really have that idea. It's a mechanism to shut women down.

It's been tricky, because women are, historically, at the bottom of the pile.

So they have to invoke female organ privilege and other such risible claptrap.

her timing during the BLM protests came without any acknowledgement in their direction that she might be distracting from their efforts.

And here again you are referring to her timing. Please look back at my posts where I ask you just when JKR should have posted about women’s rights and the issues she is posting about. And particularly the events leading up to those tweets about ‘people who menstruate’.

So again. When should she have tweeted?

And with the upcoming announcement from Liz Truss and all the activity around that, when should she tweet I’m general about women’s rights that will be effective?

And when should she deal with some of the abusive tweets she is getting now?

Or do you simply believe that she should keep silent?

but if you're a biological, white woman, and then there's a black trans woman, of course said black trans woman is probably going to think "you have white, biological privilege, talking about trans issues"

As you acknowledge, we’re talking about women’s issues. And I think ‘biological privilege’ has been covered. The trans woman in your example has male biological privilege.

Just like MB.

Please look back at my posts where I ask you just when JKR should have posted about women’s rights and the issues she is posting about.

"We'll get around to that after the Revolution, love"

Lemonade so your saying MB has more right to talk in these issues because MB is trans and POC?

On women's issues?

Because what in the lords name does MB know, actually know from experience, about BEING A WOMAN?

I didn't think you had conflated anything btw as the issue in the thread goes back to JKRs comments on the female experience.

And again, if there is a list of issues which affect and cause me pain, distress or violence which I'm qualified to talk of as a white woman id appreciate that. The insinuation that otherwise I'm one of the "Surely All Lives Matter" brigade is wrong and offensive.

Why didn’t BLM wait until after Pride Month?

Hmmmm...

I know, because more than one thing can simultaneously be important!

her timing during the BLM protests came without any acknowledgement in their direction that she might be distracting from their efforts

So obviously just another excuse for shutting down discussion of women's rights. It is starting to feel like bad faith posting. If you feel that you do not agree with JKR, you CAN just not agree. Don't go out of your way to find spurious reasons to damn her.

i lost the will to live a few pages ago....can I assume i can safely condense this down to

"SHUT UP WOMEN" just to save time?

Eresh It is very much that. Plus, as I have also pointed out.... the women's rights that JKR is being lampooned for talking about will benefit ALL women.

It is truly like there is this complete determination to cast female sex based rights for things like anti-discrimination, the language to talk about our issues (FGM, difficulties around birth, or shock, menstruation), the ability to fairly to compete in sport (which effects women's employment and educational opportunities too), and of course single safe spaces, as well as a slew of other issues to be addressed as being only for the benefit of a select group of females instead. And there is never any acknowledgement that these issue do effect ALL females.

You shouldn't speak if you have white privilege. So what about Allison Bailey? Her crowd funder was reported, removed and censored.

Seems like you can't speak if you have white privilege, neither can you speak if you don't have white privilege.

So let's see, if you disagree with the TRA narrative, you can't speak if you're white, you can't speak if you're black, you can't speak if you're trans, and you can't speak without checking the timetable first.

Got it.

#NoDebate