Munroe Bergdorf

[ripples101]

I am trans.

I was a follower of Munroe Bergdorf’s Instagram.

Munroe wrote a post about JK Rowling, calling her a dangerous woman to the trans community. Munroe stayed something along the lines of

“JKR is a dangerous cisgendered, white woman who is causing harm”

I replied to this post, asking why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity.

I wasn’t Abusive. I just felt that it wasn’t necessary, in regards to what Munroe was being critical of, to mention JK Rowling’s ethnicity.

Within minutes my post was deleted and I was blocked.

I am trans, and Munroe has silenced me.

So it seems nothing can be questioned. Any intent to ask a question, or to strike up debate, will be met with being silenced.

This is fast turning into propaganda. This is fast turning into thought crime. This is fast turning into silencing. This is fast turning into something it should never have been.

When a trans person isn’t even able to question another trans person, what chance do “people who belong to sex that menstruate”* have?

• Christ, I don’t even feel like I can use the word women here without being controversial.

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

I feel like I literally have no space left. And I can’t help but feel that a lot of biological woman are feeling the same way. And you have so much more to lose than I ever will, so I simply can’t imagine how this is making you all feel.

ripples 👏👏👏

I will ask you a question lemonade. In all your posts where you are seemingly intent on being accepting of trans people, why can you not be accepting of me, a trans person? Why have you presumed that I am wrong?

I do accept you, and you're entitled to your views and opinions like we all are.
I was just giving a reason as to what it could be, why she could have blocked you.
As I don't doubt that she probably gets a lot of abuse (not from you, I meant in general to be clear) and it was probably a reactory block.
(Again, speculating, I'm not her)
If she did immediately block and not answer what you posted on here, does seem a bit harsh if you were only asking a question.

She is placing herself in (and is finding herself) in an influential position. She should not take that position lightly.

I think ripples that is really the crux of it, right there. And this is such an important topic that is being written about every day now with new information being disseminated all the time. Some accurate and insightful, some is not. Choosing not to engage, not to discuss and clarify your thoughts when you have set yourself that role, choosing to block anyone who dares to question you, is an indication that you are not willing to engage proactively in the discussion at all.

To the posters who ask how I know you're all white, well, in my experience, white (or white looking) women are the ONLY group that still seem to grapple with the concept of relative privilege.

The rest of us are still 100 years behind you, fighting against police brutality, the right to give birth with our pain being recognised, our children being educated without bias affecting them, income inequality, a government that isnt overtly racist, our elders not getting deported after a lifetime of service to this country etc......

We haven't been able to worry about a group of people going to massive lengths to change their sex, just to share changing rooms with women and then attack them. In the future.

How do you feel about a group who claim that 'misgendering' is 'literal violence', who think that people who don't repeat the mantra 'transwomen are women' are 'oppressors', who think that not being able to use whichever changing rooms they feel like on the day in Topshop that day despite presenting as a very obvious male is an absolute outrage, who believe that not being allowed to create a legal fiction by changing your sex on your birth certificate is a huge breach of human rights, despite the fact that no one else is allowed to create such a fiction in any other aspect of life? Who think that women discussing their experiences of FGM are 'transphobic', who think that lesbians who don't want to have a sexual relationship with someone with a penis are 'bigots', who tell women that they shouldn't centre reproductive systems in women's marches because it excludes people with male reproductive systems?

Who claim that all these things make them the most oppressed and marginalised group ever? Who say that whilst 3 women a week are being murdered by their partner or ex partner in the UK right now. Whilst there are females in this world who cannot get an education for the sole reason that they have a vagina? Whilst female infants are still murdered at birth for being female? Whilst 80,000 women a year are raped in the UK? Whilst you look at the BBC news app on any given week and will see story after story of male violence against women? Whilst there are women who cannot simply 'identify out of their sex' in order to avoid their oppression?

I'm not sure that white women are the only group to struggle with 'relative privilege' are they?

Lemonade,

What I have said in this thread, the reason for creating this thread, happened.

How many more reasonable questions has Munro blocked?

You have speculated throughout. So I’d like you to speculate about that - how many voices has Munroe silenced?

If you’re not willing to speculate on that, then please, speculate on nothing.

You have defended me zero times on this thread. You have spoken against me, and used what happened to me to engage in debate with others.

Others who, quite frankly, I have received more support from than I have from you. Yet you claim to be supportive of trans people.

I mean this sincerely, I think you need to step back and ask yourself, who exactly are you speaking for here.

Because you’re not speaking in defence of me. On the contrary, you’ve spoken against me. You’ve speculated against me. You’ve defended Munroe as opposed to me. And have defended someone who has silenced me.

All because of your own speculation.

ripples101 yes, you're right. You started this thread to discuss your experience of MB silencing you and *LemonadeAndDaisyChains' has done something that seems worse by using your experience to further silence you.

Who knows what MB's motivation was for blocking you? The fact remains that you as a trans person asked a perfectly reasonable and polite question of a highly privileged trans person in a very public position who has positioned themselves as some sort of spokesperson for the trans community and you were silenced.

You said in your first post that you felt that you 'literally had no space left' and even that was brushed aside.

Again, I do thank you for starting this thread. The degree of propaganda and thought crime is extremely alarming.

LemonadeAndDaisyChains' has done something that seems worse by using your experience to further silence you

I haven't silenced the OP, how bizarre!
Free to post, just like anyone is.
If someone posts on a public forum, they expect replies, surely?
Sometimes not ones they might like, but that's what comes with different opinions and different people!
Silenced?
Really?
Good grief.

You don't seem quite as accepting of this particular trans person's right to speak as you normally are, is all. You seemed to think Bergdorf's block was reasonable.

@averysuitablegirl

Thank you so much for saying that.

Munroe brought up the issue of race against JKR. I asked why. I never received an answer. So I still don’t know why.

That is not what I want from someone who has a platform to educate.

I am none the wiser. Her other followers have just seemingly lapped it up. Or rather...

Untold people asked the same question on her platform as I did. And every single one met the same fate that I did. Blocked. Removed. Silenced.

Now that is speculation Lemonade...

Anyway, I’m nome the wiser. I asked a question. It’s unanswered.

Why is it unanswered? Why is it an unreasonable question to ask?

And that leads into a further point.

How many reasonable questions made by reasonable people are being ignored. How many voices are being silenced?

How can anyone, irrespective of whichever side they fall upon, defend that?

That, as you rightly state averysuitablegirl, is propaganda. It is thought crime. It is censorship.

Lemonade, if we were on a platform that enabled me to delete posts, and I deleted every single one of your posts, how would that make you feel?

You seemed to think Bergdorf's block was reasonable
If you actually read my posts, I actually said for just asking a question it seems harsh to just block.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

To quote you:

“ Sometimes not ones they might like, but that's what comes with different opinions and different people!
Silenced?
Really?”

————

Can you do me a favour and say that to Munroe?

For the sake of clarity;

Lemonade: “ If someone posts on a public forum, they expect replies, surely?
Sometimes not ones they might like, but that's what comes with different opinions and different people!
Silenced?
Really?”

—————

Again, say this to Munroe

Can you do me a favour and say that to Munroe?

I wouldn't hold your breath. This poster's raison d'etre is being goady, writing loads of posts which actually say absolutely fuck all, and generally derailing discussion.

Which is why, despite them always claiming to support trans people, they have largely ignored you and concentrated on deflecting the discussion.

LemonadeAndDaisyChains what you actually finally said, having defended MB and speculated about MB over many posts, was -

"If she did immediately block and not answer what you posted on here, does seem a bit harsh if you were only asking a question."

Why the 'if she did...'? OP said MB did - why does ripples101 need to have their account questioned?

And 'a bit harsh'. That's a fairly dismissive description of actions which ripples101 explains how much they impacted in the OP.

Stop gaslighting and actually listen to what ripples101 is saying.

Which is why, despite them always claiming to support trans people, they have largely ignored you and concentrated on deflecting the discussion

Why do I automatically have to agree with someone on everything they say just because they're trans?
That doesn't even begin to make sense.

So why don't you prove you are genuine and willing to engage in discussion by answering the question that you were asked at the beginning of this thread and never did answer:

What 'biological privilege' does a female have over a transwoman?

If you actually read my posts, I actually said for just asking a question it seems harsh to just block.

Right at the end. As pp have pointed out. And cast doubt on ripples' account.

Lemonade Your posts whilst never actually saying anything always sympathize with trans people.
You have an actual trans person talking to you, and you ignore their obvious distress over a very important situation. Op has raised many good points and all you have done is try to defend MB until op directly asks you a why you are minimizing what she has said and then you change tact and unconvincingly agree MB was harsh.
I don't really understand what op said that you could disagree with, she was stating a fact and her feelings around it. You came on to defend MB. Bizzare

you knew that people would be supportive of the OP and call MB's behaviour out
See, the original post didn't say "I only want to vent, get support, nobody disagree with me or actually answer the question I said I want an answer to", did it?!

OP said she had asked a question. This one.

I replied to this post, asking why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity

So I gave an answer as to what may have been why she said it.
Seeing as OP said she wanted to know why she might have brought racial identity into it.

I'm starting to see why simple, nothing wrong with questions like the OP get blocked as it's probably a common thing - people asking a question and then if MB had have answered, it's the pile on that's the problematic bit, probably couldn't be arsed with it!

You're not starting to see anything LemonadeAndDaisyChains. You decided right at the start of this thread that MB had a good reason for deleting ripples101's simple question.

There wouldn't be a 'pile on' on MB's twitter feed. She wouldn't permit it. And if she'd offered a simple answer to OP's question, people would be able to understand the motivations for her actions even if they didn't agree with it.

OP asked MB why she had mentioned JKR's racial identity, not you. That's actually what the thread is about.

Not keen on this spat. Is ripples101 here to cause ripples. After all, surely he can get advice from somewhere else? Or can only a feminist answer his question?

Or can only a feminist answer his question?

Exactly, I mean, was it a rhetorical question?!
Or not the "right" answer?
Nobody said it shouldn't be answered and it was only a support thread FFS

There wouldn't be a 'pile on' on MB's twitter feed. She wouldn't permit it
Yes, as I said, probably because if she had have answered, this is the result!
And if she'd offered a simple answer to OP's question, people would be able to understand the motivations for her actions even if they didn't agree with it.
Like on here, when somebody answered?