12 yr old DD. Gender Dysphoria, sudden announcement

[Motherofajuggernaut]

Hi
Title says it all really
Dd has just announced she is gender Dysphoric
We're all at sea

Not even sure where to begin.
Our reluctance to accept this carte blanche has been accusing of being transphobic. We're not but we are asking for time and open mindedness from ourselves and her.
It's clear there's been a lot of external social influence. Especially since lockdown, she's struggled to engage with school in any meaningful way and has been highly anxious.
She decided to break the news on the day of a family funeral where due to social distancing and travel etc only my husband attended when we would normally have all been there. Maximum impact
She came out in December as a lesbian we didn't skip a beat, sexuall preference is a non issue for us.
But now this...

We simply don't know where to begin

Do not buy her Diva or any Sarah Waters books or DVDs!! They are inappropiate for a child.

I've spent a lot of time talking about all sorts of issues with my girls.
They know that they can love who they want, dress however they want and that they are beautiful as they are and don't need to change a thing.
I was very aware that instilling body confidence was massively important. We all knew kids at schools with issues.

Yes op I'd remove social media. She shouldn't have most of those platforms pre 13 anyway

She's year 8. About to be year 9. Still 12. Late August baby

How on gods earth can you be 5 and confused about your gender identity?!! It has to be all about the parents, surely

It's so fucked up and wrong.

Sapphos I'm again agreeing with more you've said here. It's good to know our common ground is ensuring our girls know being a lesbian is fine, you don't need to look for an alternative "way to be".

OP I've just read my post back and read quickly it could sound like I'm talking about you. I'm definitely not! I'm thinking of parents who enthusiastically jump on the trans idea so young with no regards for the consequences

Just wanted to clarify

Sadly you're right to be wary of counsellors atm OP. What we need is a group of mental health professionals to look at these children from the POV of "what is driving these children to hold the false belief that they are the opposite sex, and how can we stop them believing that and reconnect them to reality? ". Same as we do when people have any other false belief, like hearing things that aren't there. But crazily, any attempt to approach things from that POV is seen as "convertion therapy". It's absolutely mental.

I'll speak from the experience of someone who was "confused" at one point about gender. (Now I no longer believe in gender. I view it as the same as religion, as in, it's clearly a belief that other people hold strongly, but not something I believe in).

If you can manage it I would ask her if she thinks everyone has or needs an internal feeling of "gender".
I think a lot of gender talk can be way too internally focused "do I FEEL like this or FEEL like that". You dont need to feel like anything.

Does she have hobbies and things going on other than talking to teens about gender?

The thing that shook me out of gender confusion was just saying fuck it to the whole thing. I asked myself how different an S in front of HE really is to me.
If I truly believe that men and women can have any kind of personality and expression (which I do), then surely that's all it came down to.

I hope some of this made sense.
I think it must be tough for your kid at the moment. Especially at a time when there seems to be so much push to support trans kids that a lesbian kid might feel more accepted if they ID as a man.

I thought I'd always instilled in her a liberal attitude of social acceptance, plus strong body image, plus strength and feminism. Up until last year she always behaved as a proud young woman. She came to a spoken word night I hosted in time for International women's Day, and stood up and read an amazing poem shed written about being a young woman..it was literally in March. She wore fab alt outfit with skirt and funky tights and DMs. I was amazingly proud, she has always had the opportunity to celebrate the sisterhood. I believe up until recently apart from a bit of localised anxiety relating to school etc she had a healthy brain

She's growing up, she will try out ideas that are different to the family norms

And she is likely experiencing a lot of turmoil with growing up, changing bodies and such

I am more than a little concerned by the phrase " some anxiety at school "

What she might need from you now could be unconditional love and support . Help her to do as much as possible of what she wants to do ( do , not expect others to do !)

But some control of the phone is needed

I can remember the case of Breck Bednar who was communicating with a man who subsequently killed him. The mother took the phone away and his murderer just sent him a new one through the post which the mother knew nothing about.

Id be very nervous about taking all screens away and the situation suddenly ramping up. I know Mumsnet considers looking at teenage children’s phones an infringement of privacy but I’d rather the child keep the phone and I monitor the content than I would remove it.

Could you say no phones after a certain time and put some rules in place. It’s so difficult and. Just have no idea anymore how we keep these kids safe if they’re determined to put themselves in harms way. Communication has to remain open.

Off topic slightly but I've had a post of mine deleted from this thread, I presume because I used the G word.

In the context of this thread I would've thought the word appropriate but maybe not?

Is this normal mumsnet moderating?

Has anything happened? A divorce/ death/ bullying etc? Lots of the ROGD stories I've read seem to have a traumatic event as their trigger point. Anything just not seemed right at school/home/with her friends in a way you couldn't quite put your finger on? Any way you can get a look at the browsing history on her phone and see how far it goes back? I agree with PP that it's better she have screens you can monitor than secret ones you can't.

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings

Has anything happened? A divorce/ death/ bullying etc? Lots of the ROGD stories I've read seem to have a traumatic event as their trigger point. Anything just not seemed right at school/home/with her friends in a way you couldn't quite put your finger on? Any way you can get a look at the browsing history on her phone and see how far it goes back? I agree with PP that it's better she have screens you can monitor than secret ones you can't.

Has anything happened? Apart from a global pandemic, we have had a lot of "stuff" her dad was diagnosed with cancer 2 yes ago but he's really well and on active monitoring.

Off topic slightly but I've had a post of mine deleted from this thread, I presume because I used the G word

Let’s just call it seeking to alienate a child from its parents and encouraging the child to pledge allegiance to another group. Because that is what’s happening here.

I’m glad the OP has been alerted to the techniques here. MN should be encouraging this discussion on a parenting site - not hiding terms that make some people feel bad.

Sorry OP I missed your latest message. I’m sure the shock and trauma of the diagnosis would have taken a toll on all of you.

Grooming is a general risk for 12 year olds having unfettered access to the internet and social media. It’s why my kids of that age are not even allowed TikTok - they were sent messages by random strangers. Posts should not be deleted for pointing out the issues with children being exposed to strangers on the internet. It is NOT saying that any particular interest group partakes in grooming, but it IS saying that children should not be talking to strangers under any assumptions as to who they are.

If someone reports this, then I hope MNHQ takes a serious look at who they are and what their motivations might be, and if MNHQ deletes this, I hope they ask themselves some serious questions why, because this is a deletion I will fight all the way.

OP if she has an iPhone I can advise how to restrict without removing it all together.

Quite right notbad

An organisation I’m involved in reviewed its safeguarding policy today. I was impressed at its starkness and lack of equivocation. Closing down discussion of safeguarding issues or concerns is clearly prohibited - even if they turn out to have no foundation. Obviously one cannot make completely baseless accusations on a public forum but I wonder what MN’s safeguarding policy says and how they square that with deleting these references.

I think we have made a bit of a break through this evening. Just in terms on reconciling phone use. She came back from her day meeting her friend at 2.30 when she was supposed to be back at 3. She stayed in touch all day via text. I'm happy she was with her friend, there are selfies of them together today. Her friend is a straight cis girl and generally found her to be sensible.

The sexting I saw was from an app called Replika. Where they can role play..my husband dealt with this bit of the conversation and I don't fully understand, but they were messing about, there was no real sexting..it's an AI...gawd knows. I will look into it further.

I had a look at her WhatsApp group thread where she talks to her trans friends and they are all kids as far as I can tell.
Instagram is gone

We have asked her to send us her sources of information, had a frank and open conversation about where she was getting her info from...mostly from Insta. So I gently questioned if she has done research elsewhere and suggested that she might not want to base a life changing decision on things she's read on Instagram.
I feel it went well, she was receptive and open..it was done without anger or too much emotional charge.
She doesn't want to take hormones, she wasn't happy about the binder, I have told her that's not happening yet. She's also annoyed we won't change the pronouns we use yet but again we have asked her to wait until September at least.
I think once she returns to school and has more to occupy her she will come out the other side. I feel more positive this evening than I have done in days

Have no helpful advice I can offer, but just wanted to say I'm glad you've had a positive day with your DD. Hope you get a good night's sleep and a more restful mind going forward, and the same for your DD.

A BAME kid won the Bake Off! So my DCs friend says well done to the TV and blm.

I've read that Mermaids is pretty reputable when it comes to counseling trans children and their parents. Maybe you should look into that.

Best of luck!

I had a look at her WhatsApp group thread where she talks to her trans friends and they are all kids as far as I can tell.

this is important

as far as I can tell

Anyone can be anyone on the internet. You know this anyway of course but it is worth repeating.

I've read that Mermaids is pretty reputable when it comes to counseling trans children and their parents. Maybe you should look into that.

Reputable? Are you insane?

Sadly you're right to be wary of counsellors atm OP.

this with bells on

In fact everyone is right to be wary of counsellors and psychotherapists right now, whatever their problem or issue. Our current system is extremely compromised and dysfunctional. Apologies to any decent counsellors out there but people need to be called out and you need to eaither lead, follow or get out of the way.