12 yr old DD. Gender Dysphoria, sudden announcement

[Motherofajuggernaut]

Hi
Title says it all really
Dd has just announced she is gender Dysphoric
We're all at sea

Not even sure where to begin.
Our reluctance to accept this carte blanche has been accusing of being transphobic. We're not but we are asking for time and open mindedness from ourselves and her.
It's clear there's been a lot of external social influence. Especially since lockdown, she's struggled to engage with school in any meaningful way and has been highly anxious.
She decided to break the news on the day of a family funeral where due to social distancing and travel etc only my husband attended when we would normally have all been there. Maximum impact
She came out in December as a lesbian we didn't skip a beat, sexuall preference is a non issue for us.
But now this...

We simply don't know where to begin

Please avoid Mermaids and Allsorts at all costs.

Transgender Trend and Safer Schools Alliance are supportive and do not push dangerous ideologies or put children on a medical pathway.

Listen and empathise. Do loads of active listening so that she feels heard. Explain that it is important for her to take time to work through this and ask open ended questions and accept answers.

Transgender Trend and Safer Schools Alliance are supportive and do not push dangerous ideologies or put children on a medical pathway.

These are extremely GC organisations which the OP's DD is likely to view as transphobic.

Allsorts absolutely doesn't push children towards a medical pathway. It's also for lesbians as well as trans young people and it sounds more likely OP's DD is a lesbian. Surely more healthy for the family to approach organisations supportive of all LGBT youngsters than specific anti trans lobbyists.

I think I read somewhere that the average age for children to declare a trans or cross sex identity was 13, and the average period of identification before desisting or detransitioning (which happened in 60-90% of cases) was around 3 years. So this may well be a marathon not a sprint for you. There's a support thread on here somewhere for parents of ROGD children (rapid onset gender disphoria) and it would also be worth you reading the research by Lisa Littman on the subject. Stay away from Mermaids at all costs. Do a search on here for threads about them, you will be shocked by what you learn. Don't let yourself be pressured into saying yes to anything you aren't comfortable with, and don't buy the lie that puberty blockers are proven to be safe and reversible. They aren't. At best there is no long term data on the effect they have on a growing brain and bones, and at worst they have been shown to increase persistence and solidify a cross sex identity, in children who would otherwise have desisted. Be aware that most therapists, doctors, activists, charities, and CAMHS professionals will be pushing an affirmation only model quite aggressively, but that this approach is motivated by a political agenda and not scientific reasoning or evidence. Don't go near any organisation until you have researched them thoroughly for yourself. Thinking of you OP, this is my worst nightmare.

It’s very normal for teenagers to think their parents know nothing and they naturally want to push against boundaries, particularly nowadays heteronormative ones. That’s why it’s so important YOU do the reading. There’s no need really for you to be pointing your child in any direction as her online tribe will have done all of that for her/him.

The important thing is you get empowered as a parent and understand what’s going on. Seek help for yourself primarily as you are going to need all the tools you can gather to help your child through this period.

Does she know any grown up gay / lesbians?
Has she been around many same-sex couples?
If not I'd be inclined to call upon any gay friends you might have and try and get her more comfortable and used to same sex couples. She doesn't have to be a boy to fancy a girl.. She needs guidance and to feel included in something before any drastic measures or labels are given / affirmed

These are extremely GC organisations which the OP's DD is likely to view as transphobic.

SSA and TT are pro safeguarding organisations advising adults, they are not aimed at children. There is absolutely no reason for a 12 year old to even know about them, let alone have decided they are transphobic.

You are projecting adult trans activist opinions onto children.

It’s comes to something when parents are scrapping around trying to find gay friends or promote lesbianism to their children doesn’t it?! My face is permanently at the moment.

Article here OP on the back of Sapphos' comments.

It's a little old in the sense that schools and LAs are now removing Allsorts packs from schools.

www.theargus.co.uk/news/16613963.there-is-nothing-anti-trans-in-this-school-pack/

@justanotherneighinparadise

It’s comes to something when parents are scrapping around trying to find gay friends or promote lesbianism to their children doesn’t it?! My face is permanently at the moment.

It’s very sad.

Unfortunately, the sad statistical truth is that most gay and bi kids are going to be raised by straight parents - it’s just a numbers thing. So most parents can do their best to model healthy heterosexual relationships and an example for their children but they are shit out of luck when it comes to doing the same for same sex attracted adolescents.

The depiction of most relationships on telly or in literature (gay or straight) are either too unrealistic to be useful or too dramatic to be healthy.

We are left with making sure we invite lesbian auntie figures round for Sunday lunch!

I'm trying to decide if I'd have cringed like mad if my parents had bought me Diva magazine as a young lesbian or been grateful. I think I'd have cringed a bit but been secretly grateful.

OP

My advice to you would be the same advice that I would give to anyone who is concerned about a loved one getting involved with a cult.

The first rule is not to argue with or oppose your DD’s position. Your DD will have conflicting / ambivalent feelings about her position and if you become entrenched in one position it will leave her occupying the opposing position. This is especially true of older children and teens as conflict with parents is a natural part of growing up and kids finding their own way in life.

The second rule is to be honest about not knowing everything and to not try to convince your DD of anything. It is important to genuinely come from a place of not knowing and wanting to understand. Let you DD know that you are open to her educating you. Ask her opinion about this and other issues. Resist any impulse to argue.

The third rule is to stimulate your DD’s natural curiosity and to ask her to explain things about the gender issue that you do not understand. It is extremely important that your DD feels empowered by you and that she is the one doing the teaching and educating and that she is the one in control. Other readers here have posted suggestions about gender critical organisations to contact and I would suggest that you follow these up. Find some issues about safeguarding, the links between cults and TRA activists, whatever is suitable for your DD’s age, and ask her to educate you about the issue. You can honestly claim to be confused as the whole thing is complex and confusing. Do not argue, simply do your best to inspire an enthusiasm for research on the part of your DD. Be extremely careful not to oppose your DD or argue.

The whole point should be to encourage your DD to research things for herself and to retain the capacity to think. The capacity to retain and use cognitive faculties can be undermined by the various discourses promoted by the TRAs and it is essential to keep your DD on side and thinking.

I would even suggest arguing some of the TRA positions as a demonstration that you are engaging with the debate, e.g. “could it be right that being a man or a woman is simply a matter of what you think to be true rather than what your body indicates?” and “maybe Steffoknee really is a 6 year old girl?” “people say that this JY person is a bully but others say that is just transphobia - what do you think?” etc.

The way that cults operate is that they provoke and instigate conflict between their followers and the families of their followers. They are skilled at creating and environment in which familial alienation occurs, at which point they separate their victims from their families and exploit them. The worst thing that a family can do is to feed into this by entering into arguments and conflict with their loved one.

Stay supportive, stay thinking and keep communications channels open.

Just my 2p worth

All the best

My only comment to add to these is to try to avoid grand gestures (chucking out and replacing all clothes etc), as that sort of thing creates a kind of feeling of obligation. Obviously, if you have to go shopping for some new trousers or something, let her choose whatever she wants as normal, haircuts etc. do whatever - but by keeping the changes small, and under her control, all her paths remain open, she won't feel that she's made a massive commitment to anything and can't change her mind.

Agree with the above.

Our rule has been nothing that causes, or has the potential to cause, permanent damage until adulthood (when it would become her own decision), so no binders, no hormones etc, and slow decisions on things that will be hard to undo (extreme haircuts and name changes on school registers etc).

We’ve looked for partway compromises, so a well fitting, minimising sports bra and buying new bits from the boys section is fine (and they are usually practical purchases anyway) but not throwing away all the old clothes at once.

Or, agreeing to use a short form of her actual name, or her initial, at home, but not taking a whole new male name.

Remember, the distress is likely real, but transition is statistically not likely to be the answer to that distress (most children who take on a cross sex identity in adolescence will desist).

So the aim is to calm the distress but not advance towards transition as the inevitable answer.

My other advice would be keep reading threads here, there’s lots of good advice generally and you’ll learn who’s reliable and who isn’t in terms of posters and resources. Don’t be put off by people picking holes in other people’s advice and/or making this support thread about them, it happens a lot and most people here will be aiming to support you and your daughter.

@HandsOffMyRights that's not an 'article' it's an opinion piece from prominent anti-trans campaigner Helen Saxby.

I've seen her speak before and she is very vocal about her view of gender being 'a load of bollocks'.

Not a very balanced message for the OP's DD.

I know Helen, she’s great. And to be fair, she is right about gender being a load of bollocks - and sexist bollocks at that. I agree it would probably be counterproductive to say that to the OP’s DD just now though.

Hi, my DD is 13 and has many non binary/ gay/ bi friends.
I introduced her to 80’s pop culture and the gender bending that went on.
Also talk a lot about fashion through history, men wearing wigs, high heels and make up. Ancient Egypt where everyone wore eye liner.
The way women are indoctrinated by the media to look and act a certain way.
Then left her to go google it all to prove me wrong.

Also told her how I felt as a teen, that would have done anything to ‘stop being a girl’ and never wanted children tell I was in my 30s.
We also look back on some stuff she did and said when she was
younger.

I think some gentle questioning is in order to help her and yourself what she means by gender dysphoric.

Feeling uncomfortable within yourself during puberty is completely normal and not necessarily indication of a deeper pathology.

I think all you can do is be broadly supportive about whatever it is she is questioning but draw the line at anything harmful such as breast binders.

Also don't hand too much power to her (out of fear of name calling or whatever) because it might actually feel quite scary to her. At 12 she is still very much a young child and they do need boundaries even if they push against them.

I feel like I'm embarking on a PhD...ffs

@Motherofajuggernaut

I feel like I'm embarking on a PhD...ffs

May as well be, I’m afraid!

You can get through this though, we’re here to cheerlead you (and your daughter) through the next however long.

Most adolescents throw out some obstacles at some point, this is your DD’s version.

Some excellent advice here OP, DuDuDu especially, really like how practical your post is. My DD will be 12 soon, they're still so, so young and the wrong message on this could be very damaging.

I don't always agree with Sapphos views however I do agree that it must be hard to find lesbian role models for her, so she can see it's ok to "just be".

All the best

I agree there has been some excellent advice, particularly from hoodathunkit.

Try not to feel overwhelmed OP, yes TRAs do occupy a proportion of online space but there is a lot of positive and affirming LGB content out there too. I wish the lesbian YouTubers Rose and Rosie had been around when I was young.

Agree very much with nearly everything said.

12 does seem very young, but there is some much media coverage of trans issues and who knows what on social media.

Although this might seem a bit basic and you may already have done this but as she had thought she was lesbian but is now saying she's trans is it worth just having the discussion that they are not the same thing. ie being lesbian is about being sexually attracted to another women / girl. Has she lost those feelings?

There are some interesting videos from the Lesbian Strength March last year. Whether you watch them together or individually and then talk about them (if she wants!). www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU_ArcIWrBmHlqyY5pww5Q/videos

And also add in info from the Detransition Advocacy Network as it puts the other side of the transition arguement. www.detransadv.com/resources

And as others have said up thread explote what gender means. And why it is that society seems to have set rules that both sexes are expected to fit into, but how every generation has had people who have resisted conforming but not felt the need to do anything to their bodies. eg Gentelman Jack

Social media has much to answer for, though there was a thread on here that seemed to show that lockdown had helped some young women away from the influence of school and realised that weren't trans! www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3952739-The-effect-of-lockdown-on-transitioning-teen-girls