Keir Starmer Sky News

[AppleJane]

Keir Starmer refused to confirm Lloyd Russell-Moyle will be sacked.

And the majority position around things like bathrooms is that women feel fine about it

That really isn't true. You need to get off social media and twitter and out on to the streets. And talk to women in shops, supermarket queues and in changing facilities. And ask parents of girls how they feel too, when their daughter expresses discomfort about using a mixed sex toilet at school. You'll find quite a different response when talking to people outside of the bubble.

That’s the one. Thank you littlbrowndog. 👍

Is this aimed at me? I was supporting BovaryX against a plopper who thinks women speaking is tedious

No, it wasn't....sorry!

Yw mutton 💪

@Justhadathought

And the majority position around things like bathrooms is that women feel fine about it

That really isn't true. You need to get off social media and twitter and out on to the streets. And talk to women in shops, supermarket queues and in changing facilities. And ask parents of girls how they feel too, when their daughter expresses discomfort about using a mixed sex toilet at school. You'll find quite a different response when talking to people outside of the bubble.

No they are not fine. Who told you that?

rather than 3% who are black

While that is correct, BLM is not just about supporting black POC. Actually BAME population nearer to 20% of UK population and in some urban areas is 40-50%.

And actually RLB case was more specifically about anti-semitism.

We do try and report truthfully on this board.

The non white population in the UK is 12% though. London elite people often seem to assume London is the whole UK.

The UK is 82% white and 97% not black.

If we have limited resources then sexism would protect more people than something that helps 3% of people only. Eg lobbying to ensure children get back to school full time with before and after school clubs so the UK does not return to the 1950s with hardly any women working does a huge lot more good than protesting in the UK about the 1000 black people killed a year by police in the USA.

I don't want any sexism or racism and that includes sexism against men and racism against whites too but we certainly would do a lot more good in the UK if we concentrated on sexism against women as that will do the most good.

EwwSprouts I totally agree and Labour are on a last chance with me on this. If there's no substantial change over the next year I won't vote for them, which will leave me with no one to vote for at all.

I think Starmer might be playing a long game - he's a considerably smarter political strategist than me here behind my keyboard but I think I would do the same in his shoes. And it's clearly not because I think that TWAW or because I have any esteem for the repulsive misogynist in question - I think if dogshit got on Russel-Moles shoes it would be all like ugh, ugh, look what just got stuck to me.

Starmer has a few years till the next election, he has to know the TRA crowd are a massive liability, but he is going to have to peel them away carefully to avoid a schism and infighting.

It's almost inevitable that more trans scandals will come out, the press are getting braver about reporting them, and the more people know about TRA the less popular their cause becomes. He is going to damage the party less if he gets rid of them a year or two down the line. Whereas the antisemitism/Labour thing is already a big story so he had to stop that dead in its tracks. He's acting in the best interests of the Labour party in both instances. And fuck the Labour party, obviously, but it's the only viable alternative we have to the banana monarchists who are currently running the shop so it would be bad if he broke the party completely.

Maybe I'm overoptimistic but I think Keir Starmer might actually be good at his job.

Re Boris Johnson and his views. I don't think he has been approached directly on this issue since becoming PM but he did write this in Feb 2019 though.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/10/police-wasting-time-arresting-twitter-transphobes-could-tackling/

It would be interesting to hear his thoughts now although considering it's Boris I imagine he might fudge it in a way that angers everyone on all sides of the debate.

Have to say i find these grey quotation grab boxes very confusing. People end up clicking on a response to a previous post as well as the post they are responding to. it leads to confusion.

Nope nope nope kantastic

He is the leader of the opposition.

He needs to do his job and face up to what being a leader is

And that means not being a panderer to the people in his party who dislike women

He did not say violence against women is bad

He accepted an apology from that mp. It wasn’t his to accept

Starmer is happy to allow women to be completely disregarded

Wait wait wait. Nope no more waiting

He had one job to do

Why are we protecting the Labour Party

They are not protecting us. Women and girls

Labour allowed dog whistle anti Semitism with Corbyn in charge and while they could get away with it.
Similarly mysogyny. It's a long road to travel before Starmer realises he needs to stand up for women in the face of TRA extremists.

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings I also didn't quite understand what you meant, but I certainly do agree that the women of privilege who are pushing transgender ideology and legislation from up high, are not considering how this will affect women and girls who are less privileged than them.

I've met some of those women, some who definitely know better, but their ideological zeal far outweighs any fleeting concern they might have had about the collerateral damage they leave in their wake. (I'm saying fleeting concern, even though I saw none. But I just can't imagine for a second that they have zero concerns about the damage they might do.)

Silly single issue feminists who think the single issue should be women’s rights!!

I have written to KS & copied in Richard Leonard - it felt rather cathartic

I think a few posters might have misunderstood what's Grab was saying!!!!! Read it again, she makes perfect sense as always.

Agree that sacking the woman and keeping the man is poor show, but also that potentially it might be Keir playing the long game? Who knows, I just would love to not have to give up on the labour party (again) quite so soon. Oh and LRM is utterly vile and should not have had a position in the first place!

littlbrowndog

A few things.

RLB is a faction leader in the way that LRM is not. I had never heard of LRM before this week.

I do think that overall Starmer is making a statement of intent whilst trying to avoid all out factional war within the Labour Party.

I also think he is well aware of where public opinion on both antisemitism and trans issues lie with the public.

He has to be seen to push back on antisemitism more than the trans issue because of where public awareness on the matter was. Corbyn was very much framed as the antisemitic leader and for Starmer to break from the past and forge a new political identity for both himself and the Labour Party he has to come down hard on it, especially when it comes to high profile Corbyn allies / Corbyn front benchers.

His position on women isn't quite as pronounced. Labour have a problem with winning over male voters: women are already much more likely to support Labour. He has more room to move here.

And he has pushed back whether or not we think it's not. He's said that we need a debate on this subject and that it's nuanced. That's different from Corbyn.

For various reasons (some of which I've put on another thread) I think this is a long game and pushback from any political party will be a long game.

For now, it will be framed that Starmer is being sexist. I personally think that this may be the case but I also think that there are limits as to how much he can do all at once too.

Everything littlbrowndog says.

I am stick of women's rights being an after thought, at the back of the queue all the fucking time.

Politicians are suppose to represent all their constituents, not just the angry Twitter mob.

She also said: “The general public as a whole – and women in particular – are not anti-trans or really worried about trans

But we have no idea who she is talking about when she says 'women' as she has just removed any meaning from that word. Is she saying men are not worried about men entering female spaces? People are not 'anti-trans' but the public in general do not want to be told that they must accept middle aged men with a penis, beard and no intention of changing their appearance getting changed with their teenage daughters or sharing hospital wards with their elderly mums. They have no worries about transwomen on mens wards, using mens toilets or being looked up in men's prisons with other men if they commit a crime.

I think the fact that JKR accepted the apology has made it easier for KS to keep LRM. However, I suspect he is on borrowed time. Given previous comments on Tories (and his lack of self knowledge and the fact that he operates in a bit of a bubble in his Brighton constituency), it's unlikely that this will be the last damaging thing he does.

Starmer has a few years till the next election, he has to know the TRA crowd are a massive liability, but he is going to have to peel them away carefully to avoid a schism and infighting.

I remember women here saying the same thing about Corbyn and McDonnell, and look what happened there.

I don't think Starmer has the intellectual curiosity to look into these issues more closely. Fgs, he gave cabinet positions to people who labelled WPUK a hate group and who openly stated that rapists who 'identify as women' should be able to choose which prison estate they are housed in. Self ID in law might go away for now, but it was only one manifestation of the problems.

I agree with littlbrowndog and think people need to stop believing Starmer is playing some clever long game.
He has stated he supports changing the law to allow self ID. He refused to support women's sports.

He has said nothing about tackling the actual epidemic of domestic violence or supporting women who are victims of DV.

It's frustrating that the real issue WRT the Odious Beardy, is not that he does not agree with JKR about trans issues, but that he said a woman talking about her experiences with male violence was doing so in bad faith. Take the trans out of it. He is telling women who are brave enough to speak about their experiences, in order to bring about a dialogue or simply just to explain their view of society, to STFU because he doesn't like it. That does not need to be pussy-footed around in order to appease factions of the Labour Party who are pro-TWAW. It stands alone as a reason why Moyles in not fit for public office.

I remember women here saying the same thing about Corbyn and McDonnell, and look what happened there

I don't know who that was, but I would never have said that about Corbyn. Many things could be said about Corbyn but "clever political strategist" is surely a reach for even the most devout member of his cult.

I do think Starmer is very different from Corbyn and also that he's doing his job better than I could do it (I don't work in politics so this should be a given with any politician, but that is sadly not the case.) But I totally respect the point of view of women who are on the "fuck this shit" train. And I'm glad they are expressing it - I hope someone in the Labour party is taking note. But I hope I'm right about it being a long game, only time will tell.