Keir Starmer Sky News

[AppleJane]

Keir Starmer refused to confirm Lloyd Russell-Moyle will be sacked.

live and let live the good old days of transsexuals before it became 'I'll live and do whatever I want and if you don't let me you can die in a grease fire 'terf' scum'.

This is a major concern for a very very tiny fraction of the population. I've hardly seen it discussed anywhere outside MN. I think people need to live and let live.

Unfortunately this isn't only a concern for a tiny fraction of the population.

The legislative changes proposed by Stonewall mean the end of legal protection for sex based rights and services because there is no longer any legal concept of sex.

and the take over of the party by the hard left

The 'hard left' are synonymous with identity politics.

I encouraged super-woke ds to read The Madness of Crowds by Douglas Murray. He was

Dh works in a very “gay” industry. Until now there has been little discussion of transactivism, but just this week he reports that the men at work have been talking about being pretty angry at this group piggybacking on their cause and achieved rights.

This is a major concern for a very very tiny fraction of the population. I've hardly seen it discussed anywhere outside MN. I think people need to live and let live.

I think an MP telling woman they cannot talk about feminism and their formative experiences unless they are sunny days wrapped in a bow is a concern to many.

If you are referencing the wider women's rights issue then this is because #nodebate worked for a while. I discussed with my mum who was not aware she could end up in a hospital bed next to a biological male and she soon converted half the golf club. The sense of vulnerability in a hospital bed is known to older women.

Two possibilities here.

1. KS doesn't care in the slightest whether TWAW or not. He just wants to get elected, and will avoid saying anything to alienate his base, whatever this requires. (He knows though that anti-semitism is electorally unpopular, so had to stand against it: whereas the "men in girls changing rooms" issue still hasn't made the big time in terms of electoral awareness, though it yet may do so.)

1. KS actually thinks it would be great if males were allowed in teenage girls changing rooms, and if we could no longer monitor the sex pay gap or male violence against women.

Which is worse? Unprincipled power crazed career hack, or unpleasant misogynist who deliberately seeks to undermine our daughters' freedom, dignity, safety and economic progression?

Not much of a choice for Labour voters.....

(Incidentally, I think its probably the first, though I wouldn't put money on it. I don't think Keir would recognise a principle if it crept up and shouted "boo" at him.)

I think Starmer knows how bad it is, and also how much difficulty it'll create for him in his party if he says so. I suspect he also also knows just how bad the fall out is going to be in the next few years with all the legal challenges and other shit that's coming out.
My theory is that he's going to let the Tories be the 'bad guys' to the TRAs now while doing little to stop whatever Truss has planned, and when the next elections do come round, no one will have anything to pin on him whichever way the wind is blowing.
He's a real slippery fish.

'Imagine if Russell-Moyle had written an article accusing a black person of weaponising their experience of racism, or a Jewish person of weaponising their experience of anti-Semitism. He'd have been out of the door before he'd had time to draw breath.

Women, though? Nah, that's different.'

Yes.

Baroness Nicholson is rude to a transwoman and gets booted off the Booker committee.

David Willetts, who accused ambitious girls of depriving males of places at university and in the professions, gets to stay.

I am seeing certain patterns here.

This is a major concern for a very very tiny fraction of the population. I've hardly seen it discussed anywhere outside MN. I think people need to live and let live

I do live and let live. This isn't about that though except for the fact that many women are not being allowed to "let live".

This has been prevented from being in the public domain deliberately. There's plenty of evidence that this is the case.. The way this ideology has been allowed to take hold has enormous implications (for women's rights and also for free speech) Those of us who have noticed something very 'off' about this are the canaries in the coalmine. Something extremely sinister has been going on. This ideology has been imposed; it's not grassroots activism like other civil rights movements. This is not the new gay rights. The threats and silencing, coming from a high level, speaks of a very powerful lobby indeed.

Just look at what happened to Allison Bailey's crowdfunder yesterday. There is a top-down pattern happening that you simply do not see with grassroots civil rights movements and it's targeted mainly at women. Individuals and powerful organisations are literally AFRAID to speak. There are people with a vested interest in this not getting out in public.

I think people on this thread are giving KS too much credit, he knows TW arent Women because everyone fucking does, but that doesnt mean he is on womens side. A lot of people know TWarentW, but equally dont really give a shit about womens rights.

Hes given no indication that he cares about womens rights.

Its all very well to say hes playing the long game, but labour party have already lost a lot of womens votes, this has been going on a long time. Its going to take a lot for me to vote for them again

'Wrong question' i dont give a shit if its the wrong question, its the question I want you to answer, so answer it.

Automatically lose respect for politicians who weasel out of questions and think we dont notice. Its so patronising

@hellandhairnets I couldn't agree with you more. This is silencing coming from the top. It's a shocking attack on women and it depresses me. There is nothing progressive about trans activism. It is a regressive and homophobic ideology, skittering along on a cloud of magical thinking and hideous stereotypes, that will set women's rights back decades. Get patriarchal religion on the run, get this. Not a coincidence.

@hellandhairnets I couldn't agree with you more. This is silencing coming from the top. It's a shocking attack on women and it depresses me. There is nothing progressive about trans activism. It is a regressive and homophobic ideology, skittering along on a cloud of magical thinking and hideous stereotypes, that will set women's rights back decades. Get patriarchal religion on the run, get this. Not a coincidence

Great post! And you are right that so much of identity politics is as rigid and authoritarian as any religion, whereby all people, especially women women, are fashioned after a male godhead, or from Adam's rib. Always secondary. A man made creation.

What we're being told is that our integrity as females of the species is all in our mind, or rather a total creation of a male mind.

As for transmen, you don't see them, wheedling, whining, shouting, screaming and trying to force their way in to male spaces in quite the same way.

Just read that the hard left are infiltrating the LibDems. The traditional view of them is as beardy sandal-wearing vegans and generally nice , but newer members are... progressive.

@IrmaFayLear

Just read that the hard left are infiltrating the LibDems. The traditional view of them is as beardy sandal-wearing vegans and generally nice , but newer members are... progressive.

Sounds good to me. Get all the wokies in one party and then we can have a sane option

Hello. Regular lurker here - inspired to join by another recent thread. I usually keep up with all the acronyms but have seen "SJ movement" mentioned a couple of times on this thread and I'm stumped. Would someone tell me what it means? Thank you.

Sounds good to me. Get all the wokies in one party and then we can have a sane option

Probably an attempted takeover of of both parties. Which means the Tories will remain in power for a very long time.

@NotImpossible

Hello. Regular lurker here - inspired to join by another recent thread. I usually keep up with all the acronyms but have seen "SJ movement" mentioned a couple of times on this thread and I'm stumped. Would someone tell me what it means? Thank you.

SJ Social Justice

I think it's a mix of the following:

1. KS knows exactly how toxic the trans mess has become and he has no intention of being cast as transphobic, bigoted or sexist. Pronouncing, either way, is going to upset someone without conferring an advantage. The Tories have kicked the GRA reform in the long grass and Baroness Nicholson is going after regulatory capture. Outside of these boards, it is seen as a niche issue. I will be interested to see if it changes when Allison Bailey's case comes to court.

2. He had to been seen keeping his word on anti-semitism. It draws a line under the Corbyn years and Labour is going to get enough grief as it is, from the Equalities Commission Report. However, JKR's domestic abuse does not directly affect him and (because the victim is now popular, affluent and successful), he calculated that the story will drop soon enough. Sacking one member is understandable, sacking two starts to look unstable.

3. The Labour Party is in a mess. It's going to take at least four years to reform it and I don't expect much in the way of policy or pronouncements until the next set of elections.

I am keeping an open mind until I see a manifesto. TBF, Keir reminds me a bit of Tony Blair and he's courting the middle ground. It's going to be decided on jobs, healthcare, education and trade deals.

@NotAGirl Thank you :)

This is a major concern for a very very tiny fraction of the population. I've hardly seen it discussed anywhere outside MN. I think people need to live and let live

Tell that to all the schoolgirls excluded from education in the UK because of unisex toilets. Yes, excluded. They stay home during their period, and often try and hold wee in all day too. Tell that to their parents.

I don't think it's a niche issue at all.

A tiny fraction with a hell of a lot of pulling power.
There are probably more left-handed, atheist, cat owning arsonists in the country and they aren’t pushing to get laws changed and having politicians and big businesses jumping in their bandwagon.

I don't think it's a niche issue at all

It's not, but in terms is how important it is Polling on the doorstep it's a low priority. The guardian have run a story on this today (I linked to it on the JKR response to Labour MP thread).

The point they make is that the tory voters are more socially conservative and views on this are generally fairly consistent however the Labour Party has a problem because its voters are split on the issue.

This means Labour are keen to bury the topic, whilst the Conservatives want to push it.

I would argue that this isn't going to go away for Labour - we have the Olympics next year and there is likely to be court cases.

Whilst they may hope they can keep a lid on it, wanting to pass law when they win election, the Labour Party has to win an election first... This issue will not appear on a manifesto because its easy pickings for the government to show how out of touch with the public they are.

This is why pressure needs to be kept up.

A pincer movement from the women of the left and the Conservative party will be uncomfortable for Starmer. It needs to be.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/29/tories-culture-war-voters-statues-churchill-red-wall-labout?__twitter_impression=true

Article here

I have no idea what he thinks personally, but politically he doesn't have many options. If he comes out to fast and hard on this he will not be able to get a grip on the underlying problems. And that absolutely has to be done if they are gong to be a politically viable party within the next two election cycles.

It's kind of like tickling a fish.