The effect of lockdown on transitioning teen girls

[Thegenderbreadperson]

I mentioned this on another thread, but as a worker in a high school we have found out during weekly phone calls home that since lockdown that most of our FtM students have de transitioned, perhaps as there is no longer the group peer pressure or affirmation from teachers? I was interested to see if there are any more examples - the other thread was started about Dr Haddock, and I felt this was worthy of its own thread.

In our school there were nine girls out of a approx 160 student year 9 cohort who identified as boys. Seven have now de transitioned since lockdown and one is considering it. Out of those nine I would have said three of them weren’t as committed as the others and had said they were “thinking about being non binary”, but were keen to remain part of that friendship group. It really is infectious.

Glad to hear so many girls are growing comfortable in themselves now they aren't subjected daily to the harsh teenage judgment of their peers.

Yep
_>
This is interesting. Aside from the school influence, I wonder if these girls are also enjoying another unexpected lockdown benefit - namely it's now socially acceptable to cross the road and actively avoid people when out on the streets. No more having to walk through groups of men fearing the inevitable "cheer up love" or worse.

I am sure the counter view will be that these poor children have been coerced into detransitioning by their transphobic families over lockdown.

This. I came across a quote from Mermaids recently (in relation to how Covid had affected the work of charities) saying how awful lockdown was for trans children and young people - locked away with their families who they were desperate to escape from I rolled my eyes as my gut feeling was that a lot of young people might do better without being around their peers. This has been the case for one of my teens who's been bullied at school in recent months.

Dd 17 ASD who identifies as male has been far less morose and not consumed by who she believes herself to be during lockdown. More like who she used to be. She has been online shopping very recently and the first lot came today, they are definitely from the women's section, flowers and pastels which came as a surprise. I've not commented, just take it as it comes, but I'm sure it's because without the scrutiny of her peers she can be herself instead of fitting in with the adopted cause.

This is such an interesting thread. I have little to add save than to say as a primary school teacher I have long seen the tendency of colleagues to use girls to moderate boys’ behaviour, and to use high-achieving girls to support low-achieving boys. They’re both very common strategies but ones which I refuse to employ. I also actively discourage girls from tidying up for the boys on their table where those boys do not already pull their weight.

High-achieving boys are never expected to halt their progress to help girls. They are given the time and space to extend their own skills. Girls are expected to play the helpful, kind role and stop their work in order to make up for the deficiencies in boys’ learning when they could be pushing their own learning on. What often happens is that boys then become reliant on girls to do their work for them and in fact, expect them to. Well, not on my watch.

Another anecdote. A teen FTM acquaintance on one of my groups, very very "sure" of it, determined to get phalloplasty. I talked with her a few times about other issues. She reminded me of myself at her age--in hobbies, interests, she's autistic and lesbian. I just saw her in another group and she has detransed during lockdown. I literally cried I was so relieved.

Worker friends? So you are not a transitioning teenage girl in high school then? Hardly comparable.

While I won't state my assigned gender at birth, I was in school when I started to question my gender identity, yes. Stop treating us as though we're poor people being peer pressured into being transgender and removing any kind of agency from our decisions.

Stop treating us as though we're poor people

Ok, will do.
Back to the specific group of people in OP's school: it's interesting that year 9 is where you have spotted this happening. I found year 9 to be the hardest by far. Even the nice boys were foul then! (Behaviour wise)

Hope that happened to me in primary. I spent a large part of my last year in primary teaching the boy who had learning difficulties how to do simple multiplication. He had bee

How does this ‘assigned’ thing work exactly? Because medicine isn’t a science or anything is it...?

Why do I need to hit 'post' twice when I want to but once works when I don't?
He had birth injuries and really struggled in mainstream. I am part way through an autism diagnosis so both of us were being failed in retrospect.

While I won't state my assigned gender at birth, I was in school when I started to question my gender identity, yes. Stop treating us as though we're poor people being peer pressured into being transgender and removing any kind of agency from our decisions.

Many are, especially when it happens at a young age. Autistic girls identifying as Male has risen by 4000% over the last three years, if you don't think that needs to be questioned then I don't what to say to you. Anyway no one much cares about youngsters identifying as non binary, I know you'll be disappointed at that but it's true, they only really care when they start taking drugs with unknown side effects and taking steps to permanently alter and make infertile, healthy young bodies.

I won't state my assigned gender at birth

You mean your sex. Which was observed at birth and unchangeable.
How can gender be assigned at birth when you are a fresh slate without a developed personality? Or if it's an 'innate sense of self' how can it have been picked for you?

Kids are pushed into it. Being taught the bullshit in schools that EVERYONE has a 'gender identity' and they must pick one. Non conforming or gay kids told they must be trans because they don't adhere to sex role stereotypes.

It's an ideology. A belief system where these kids aren't being allowed to opt out or disagree.

More anecdata - my 16yo was brain damaged at birth. She is FAR more susceptible to this coercive ideology than either of the other two. She already feels different and marginalized because she talks and walks oddly and has trouble controlling her muscles. Y9 is exactly when girls realise what is ‘expected’ in terms of looks, behaviour, and sexuality. If you already feel ‘different’ for any reason, you are wide open to suggestion. Don’t fit the stereotype? Perhaps you are a boy. Already marginalized and ignored with no friendship group? This is a great way to get positive reinforcement and attention.
It is of course also the age that lots of other mental health issues kick in - OCD and anxiety disorders typically appear at this point if you are susceptible.
It enrages me that as a society we are failing our most vulnerable girls.

Apparently women’s menstrual cycles with complicated and varying amounts of hormones throughout the month make us more difficult to study needing larger sample sizes and longer trial periods and expense.

Well it's not as if around half the patients who will eventually take these drugs have hormones that fluctuate through the month, is it! /sarcasm

Congratulations to everyone whose DDs are doing better in lockdown. My own experience of adolescence tells me that schools can be horrible places for children who don't fit and from what I've heard since it's only gotten worse. Surely there must be a better way of educating children than locking them up with their peers seven hours a day and isolating them from the rest of society?

Different slant and still anecdata, but we ended up home schooling DS for much of year 8 due to bullying that his school were laissez-faire about.

He was struggling with school and homework at the time so in his world was in trouble with Teachers and reluctant to tell them about the bullying, meanwhile he was coming home and being horrible to his younger sister so getting told off by DH and I. It was a cycle of bullying/poor behaviour/telling off/low self-esteem.

Home schooling almost solved the problems overnight. He was removed from the bullys and able to reset his relationship with us, meaning his mental health and self esteem improved, along with his behaviour.

The examples in this thread remind me of that time and how glad I am that we were able to reverse a deteriorating situation.

I hope your situations continue to improve

@LokiOdinson

Worker friends? So you are not a transitioning teenage girl in high school then? Hardly comparable.

While I won't state my assigned gender at birth, I was in school when I started to question my gender identity, yes. Stop treating us as though we're poor people being peer pressured into being transgender and removing any kind of agency from our decisions.

I hate to be the one to tell you this but we are ALL ‘nonbinary’, the only difference between people who call themselves nonbinary and the rest of us is that you are signed up to a belief system that forces people into ‘gender’ boxes and you think you are somehow special not to be in one. The rest of us just don’t recognise those boxes in the first place.

@LokiOdinson

S'funny, I'm still non-binary despite being very isolated through lockdown with a large majority of essential worker friends.

S’funny - we are talking about schoolchildren, not you.

@willowbythcam

Not to be too nit-picky but I think it's important to be accurate in these troubled times. Caspian was refused ethics approval. He wasn't asking for funding. Even a small scale research project can cost quite a lot of money and it's really really hard to get funding for anything except Covid-19 and economics at present (has been hard to get funding for a long time). And it would be specially hard to get funding for this I think, though it really needs researching.

interestingly, there is a large organisation working in the LGBT area that has an enormous annual income (£8.6m) last year - maybe Stonewall could fund some research projects that would actually help girls rather than silencing them.

Stonewall won’t spend money on anything like that. They could provide trans facilities/DV units etc with all the millions they make - but they choose not to.

Loki, most of us on here questioned issues around gender and identity at school!

This is due to harmful, regressive stereotypes and, for me, the behaviour and expectations of males.

When I developed big breasts and the boys twanged my bra and bullied me, I questioned why this was happening. I changed my behaviour and looks for fear of male attention.

When girls were encouraged to take 'typing' GCSE or 'Home Economics' I questioned why. When I asked the careers advisor about a career in journalism I was asked if I might consider a career as a secretary instead. My male friend was encouraged to apply for work experience at a newspaper.

There were many other incidents (including an older boy forcing himself on me) and the treatment of a female friend during a teenage pregnancy that made me question issues around gender stereotyping and identity and why females were treated differently.

I have teenage boys and they have thankfully not experienced the sexism and predatory behaviour from the opposite sex that I suffered as a teen, that so many other girls still suffer too.

@prolefeed

More anecdata - my 16yo was brain damaged at birth. She is FAR more susceptible to this coercive ideology than either of the other two. She already feels different and marginalized because she talks and walks oddly and has trouble controlling her muscles. Y9 is exactly when girls realise what is ‘expected’ in terms of looks, behaviour, and sexuality. If you already feel ‘different’ for any reason, you are wide open to suggestion. Don’t fit the stereotype? Perhaps you are a boy. Already marginalized and ignored with no friendship group? This is a great way to get positive reinforcement and attention. It is of course also the age that lots of other mental health issues kick in - OCD and anxiety disorders typically appear at this point if you are susceptible. It enrages me that as a society we are failing our most vulnerable girls.

prolefeed That must be so worrying. Is her school one that centres child welfare and safeguarding or one that is more concerned to be 'woke' and invites Mermaids, Stonewall etc in to try to influence children into their preferred beliefs?

Really encouraging to read about how some young girls are weaning themselves off toxic gender ideology during lockdown and learning to be happier and more comfortable with themselves. I hope they continue to improve and more anecdotes like this keep coming up.

@LokiOdinson
While I won't state my assigned gender at birth

I am a health professional - biology matters. Your sex was observed at birth and is immutable. Gender is based on stereotypes and social concepts and a newborn baby would have no idea of those. A baby IS a male or female - not “assigned”, how daft. Disclaimer - unless the baby is one of the extremely small numbers who are born intersex.

I don’t understand why schools are in such a rush to blindly affirm and validate girls that they can be boys - what is wrong with watchful waiting and allowing children to express themselves as they want? Why do they have to be pushed down the trans route?

I don’t understand why schools are in such a rush to blindly affirm and validate girls that they can be boys - what is wrong with watchful waiting and allowing children to express themselves as they want? Why do they have to be pushed down the trans route?

Watchful waiting allows for puberty to happen. Most children grow out of it after puberty when left alone.

If put on.blockers they never get to fo through puberty and it cements their identity.

I do wonder if the fact puberty seems to be starting earlier in many cases these days , a few theories surrounding that such as increased rates of childhood obesity etc, plays a part.

Primary schools arent always set up brilliantly for girls in particular, some may have a separate yr 5/6 block complete with bins and free sanpro, others may well just have the one toilet that has the bin and the child is almost singled out.

That and honestly tbh we need to stop thinking that we can make everything ok for kids all the time and sheltering them from the world. Puberty sucks big time but it's normal. When did we crossover from teaching our kids how to deal with situations and telling them it's ok to be sad about things sometimes, to trying to keep them happy all the time.

Like say with food. Parents who feed their kids snacks all the time because they dont want then to feel hungry -V- the ones who see no harm in being hungry for an hour it just means they will eat their dinner.

Do we do the same thing with life in general ?