TWAW

[Billi77]

Thought it might be an idea to start a thread for women who support TWAW. I understand ‘Feminism chat’ should also include us and give us our own space?

Unfortunately those on the other side of the argument are much more vocal

'Trans'lation: Unfortunately those on the other side of the argument keep using scientific fact and logic and that isn't fair on me because all I can do is repeat 'transwomen are women'.

@Billi77 I agree with you, although I don't need to read the rest of the thread to see that it's probably gone "that's nice hun" or the amazingly passive aggressive "Welcome to MN" lol
I see we haven't got past first page with what is a woman and define woman!

According to MN search it looks like you have a 4yo. So, as a mother, with a uterus who has gone through female puberty and childbirth, if that is the case, what do you have in common with a man, with a penis, in a dress, given that over 80% of TW don't undergo surgical transition?

@Billi77

I don’t want to divulge too much about my background but am willing to answer questions I feel to be relevant. Am also happy to discuss why I believe TWAW based on personal experience.

But mostly I’m keen to meet feminists online who are trans-inclusive as I have heard a lot from those who are not . Given my RL experience outside of my immediate social circles, this feels massively disproportionate.

Excellent. Carry on and say why you believe TWAW from personal experience. That would be a great start to the whole conversation.

I'm not a feminist OP, but you may of course identity as one.

Maybe you could tell us whether you are male or female? I hope that's not too personal, I think it's relevant.

Please do explain why you hold your view.

Discussions are being when it's just a list of I believe statements.

We don't have to argue with you, think the OP just wants to demonstrate that MN isn't 100% anti-trans. I know your argument might be the minority on most social media but for those of us who don't use twitter, the only mention of trans stuff we see is on here, and it's tiring seeing the constant stream of vitriol

I dont think that's quite the gotcha you think it is Lemonade

We ARE trans inclusive

We generally include transmen in our feminism.

Again. Why isn’t that good enough. Why do transmen hardly get a mention?

Perhaps it’s that aforementioned misogynistic shitshow?

@Billi77

I don’t want to divulge too much about my background but am willing to answer questions I feel to be relevant. Am also happy to discuss why I believe TWAW based on personal experience.

But mostly I’m keen to meet feminists online who are trans-inclusive as I have heard a lot from those who are not . Given my RL experience outside of my immediate social circles, this feels massively disproportionate.

Answer questions? So you want the women here to do the work? You started the thread, go ahead and make your case for why TWAW, please.

It isn’t a feminist position, so that’s likely why you haven’t heard from many like minded feminists.

Am also happy to discuss why I believe TWAW based on personal experience.

Please do.

Vitriol? Heh. You don’t get out to the farm much, either. People who are unaware of what passes for ordinary conversation on twitter are probably not the best ones to judge what ‘vitriol’ is and criticize mn.

I see we haven't got past first page with what is a woman and define woman!

That's pretty central to the argument don't you think? If you can't define what a woman is how can you assert that TWAW other than that you wish it was true?

80 comments wanting you to explain your position.
And you just wont.
Why?
You might change a few minds.

We don't have to argue with you, think the OP just wants to demonstrate that MN isn't 100% anti-trans
Good point, not getting into a debate about it probably best way as never ends well, just seeing if it's an echo chamber or not - hope some lurkers pop up to say yay or nay too

but for those of us who don't use twitter, the only mention of trans stuff we see is on here
very true, and same

Am also happy to discuss why I believe TWAW based on personal experience.

On you go, then. I'll get the popcorn ready.

probably best way as never ends well

Good job you are here then

What vitriol? If you want vitriol just look under JKR tweets. Now that is vitriol.

We ARE trans inclusive We generally include transmen in our feminism

That, from what I've seen on here, is bullcrap though, sorry.
How are you inclusive of trans men if the only reason you are inclusive is because you refuse to see them as men and insist they're lost women instead?

@bunpot....seriously 'level of vitriol'....where exactly?

You and bill both seem to be wishing for some nastiness or hatred to be displayed that simply isn't here.
When you don't see it you are disappointed and pretend that you have.
I am not going to insult anyone who is actively seeking it.

You being general you in case it needs pointing out

Is anyone truly not aware that some feminists believe TWAW? This is what is so wearing. FWR is full of conversation, and more than one person, myself included, gave said 'Ok, why do you think that?'

But it's never good enough. The only desire people have when they start these threads is to have a few 'Yes, TWAW OP. Everyone here is horrid'. I'd love to know why someone thinks TWAW. But all I ever get is the cult mantra repeated and a flouncey "There's no point explaining why I think TWAW!" This is why I think most people making the TWAW claims are part of a beo-religion, because the only other place I came across this 'Don't ask questions, just listen to the prophet' attitude was in the Jesus Army...

not getting into a debate about it probably best way as never ends well

Well of course - if you mean 'ends well' as in everybody just agrees to repeat the mantra that TWAW. That's obviously not going to happen because it isn't true and you can't make it be true.