Rebecca Wrong-Daily Sacked

[Sexnotgender]

For apparently sharing something anti-Semitic.

Oh dear how sad.

@BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup

I'm shocked by the posters on this thread who don't understand why RLB tweet was anti-Semitic. Other posters have kindly explained to you very clearly but if you don't get it then you also clearly don't understand what the Black Lives Matters protests are about.

What makes you think it's that they don't get it, rather than they disagree?

I took her point to be that there is a wider problem of police suppression of citizens and militarisation, even outside the US. And actually I think this is important to understanding why this goes on in the US. The American police have become militarised, as if they are dealing with a situation that is more like a war, and they are treating a section of the population as enemies of the state. And that's actually not mostly black people, it's mostly poor people of whatever race.

Within a lot of the defund the police commentary, I've been reading that the American police have very little training, but then have also seen stuff like this about them being militarised which implies they've been trained to be that way. Maybe it depends which state they're in, but I'm a bit confused by it.

That can certainly happen, but I don't think we can use that possibility as a reason to dismiss reasonable statements. "I think the formation of the modern secular state of Israel in 1947 was problematic in this way" is not the same as "Jews are a problem

No, of course not... But beneath that valid discussion and criticism there is often a whole shed load of Jewish conspiracies and general anti-semitic tropes. If challenged on that, the stock response is that they are anti-capitalists( and the Jews, and the U.S represent the worst of everything they hate).

The Labour Party has dealt with anti semitism poorly in the very recent past and those on the front bench should be making a concerted effort to build bridges rather than supporting public figures who link George Floyd’s death to Israel. Exactly

Black man killed by white policeman in America = it’s all the Jews fault

This is how I read it, notable that the independent have changed the article from its original
Although I suspect Rebecca lost her position because she refused to take the tweet down when asked to by her boss

Pleased she has gone

I'm indifferent about this woman, and about her pal who came up with a story that some power abusers have copied whatever techniques they think will work. It wouldn't be particularly astonishing, would it? Could it just be factual that one set of ( presumably uniformed ?)people (I never heard of them so don't know if they exist or what is their task) have developed some basic part of this technique, which they might use in strictly disciplined and limited circumstances.? If not taken to extreme, and if not used unless essential, possibly it could be legitimate and useful in their responses to certain situations? Obviously it looks pretty effective, (like tasers,) as a way to deal with violent resistance to arrest, but only for a few seconds, not as a means of murder. (And not, as in that instance, when the suspect was not resisting arrest. No quelling, by any method, was required or justifiable). It would be like tasers. In very rare circumstances they might be called for, but as soon as a power abuser gets power, it needs close monitoring to ensure it is not used unreasonably. One retired u.k. policeman remarks that he wouldn't leave some of his ex colleagues unsupervised with a stapler!

People have pointed out that a major, problematic, big power abuse in America is that of the police unions, who in some U.S.A States will invariably defend the indefensible. I noticed an old man knocked out, blood coming from his head, another man, shuffling along with a walking stick and attacked by police knocking him down, a couple of girls walking along a 'sidewalk', rushed from behind and, again, knocked down. These were white people attacked by white police. I don't believe I was watching racism. What I was seeing was power abusers abusing power. They might very well have been racists, as well as power abusers, or paedophiles, as well, or wife beaters, as well, or antisocial neighbours, as well, but I would be surprised if they feared ever being made to account for anything they do, because they enjoy the arrogant confidence of bullies who feel certain they are immune from rules, and above laws.

@SuckingDieselFella

“its borders have shrunk”?
No they haven’t!
Show us some maps to prove your “point” please!

“Land where Jewish people have lived since the beginning of recorded history”?
You know this is pure hyperbole!
The original Palestinians have lived there since then too, & land which the Arabs had legal title to has been annexed for Jewish settlements.

@BlueBooby

I took her point to be that there is a wider problem of police suppression of citizens and militarisation, even outside the US. And actually I think this is important to understanding why this goes on in the US. The American police have become militarised, as if they are dealing with a situation that is more like a war, and they are treating a section of the population as enemies of the state. And that's actually not mostly black people, it's mostly poor people of whatever race.

Within a lot of the defund the police commentary, I've been reading that the American police have very little training, but then have also seen stuff like this about them being militarised which implies they've been trained to be that way. Maybe it depends which state they're in, but I'm a bit confused by it.

Police force training does vary a lot in the US, and not just state by state, but different towns. So that's part of it, and part of the problem. Some get only six weeks of training.

Militarisation is about what kind of training, and also about things like how they are equipped. Military type training is quite different than police training in a country like the UK, soldiers are trained with the idea that they will be, at least at times, in aggressive acts against enemy soldiers and targets. Killing can actually be their job and goal. The police are there to protect citizens, including ones that are criminals or causing problems. There are strict conditions around use of force, and it's not the ideal ever.

When you militarise a police force, you are giving them the kinds of attitudes and reactions, and also tools, of the military - they end up seeing citizens, at least certain ones, as the enemy.

A police force with poor training can fall into some of these practices pretty easily, because they don't have the skills to do the more difficult work of policing, and they may not have much to draw on in terms of deescalation techniques and such

Black man killed by white policeman in America = it’s all the Jews fault

And that's NOT what has been said,.

Some of the people on here sound exactly like TRAs who claim and see transphobia everywhere when someone mentions anything even vaguely connected to trans people.

There was a fairly informative (!) article in the Daily Mail the other day regarding the UK BLM.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8441405/The-avowed-aims-British-arm-Black-Lives-Matter.html

If you don’t want to click on the link:

Black Lives Matter UK has also used the social network to express support for the so-called BDS movement,which calls for a boycott of Israel over its treatment of Palestinians. Last year, the group called for the Eurovision Song Contest to be moved from ‘Apartheid Israel’.

Many Jewish groups regard the BDS movement as anti-Semitic because they believe it unfairly singles out Israel, the world’s only Jewish state, for scrutiny that is not applied to other regimes.

Thank you Goosefoot.

I agree. But it's clear from your repeated comments about 'occupation' that you have other issues with the world's only Jewish state. Israel was established by the UN. If you're going to argue about democracy you have no choice but to respect its legitimacy

Israel was established by the UN. How much of that plan included the territory it now has?

There's a lot of history in that area. I have no problem with the State of Israel - as you seem to think. I do have an issue with what has happened since to the territories.

I have a problem with the State of Israel trying to deny the right to existence of the State of Palestine.

@fliesandpies Except they don’t. Please see Camp David Accords for further details. As someone who works in diplomacy in this area, of this specific region: when people get this wrong, en masse, you anger the Israelis and the Palestinians and the Arab states. Please read up.

[quote sergeilavrov]@fliesandpies Except they don’t. Please see Camp David Accords for further details. As someone who works in diplomacy in this area, of this specific region: when people get this wrong, en masse, you anger the Israelis and the Palestinians and the Arab states. Please read up.[/quote]
Camp David Accords 1978?

We’re 42 years on. What happened?

Poor abused innocent Israel, eh?

‘another "glorious chapter in the history of Zionism"’

www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-middle-east-53139808?__twitter_impression=true

42 years on, and a lot has happened... starting from those Accords came a process of improved interaction (often spearheaded by Egypt) that directly led to the letters or recognition between the PLO and Israel. It’s all available online, using neutral sources. From that point, even further work has been done - including and not limited to state building funding for Palestine from Israel.

Politics is complex in the Middle East, but misunderstanding is no excuse for anti semitism.

@sergeilavrov

42 years on, and a lot has happened... starting from those Accords came a process of improved interaction (often spearheaded by Egypt) that directly led to the letters or recognition between the PLO and Israel. It’s all available online, using neutral sources. From that point, even further work has been done - including and not limited to state building funding for Palestine from Israel.

Politics is complex in the Middle East, but misunderstanding is no excuse for anti semitism.

How have Palestinians benefited so far?

@giantkitten Investment into realigning economic zones across the bank of the Dead Sea, facilitation of huge increases in tourism, entrepreneurship grants and mentor ship, easier entry into Israel with work permit availability, reduced childhood mortality and longer life expectancy, improved training for Palestinian police (who work with the Israelis), a system to collect tax dividends, the emergence of a small civil service, financial and political support for a wealth of NGOs, scholarships and training for college aged students, huge support for the Palestinian cause within Israel as a result of these greater understandings - particularly in Tel Aviv. Would you like more?

You’ll also find BDS is hugely unpopular amongst Palestinians who live and work in Palestine. Boycotting their sources of income is a policy supported only by those privileged middle classes who have never lived there.

How have Palestinians benefited so far

Giant kitten, what do you have to say about the general and predictable anti-semitic tropes and genera Jewish conspiracies which lie not too far from the surface ofd many of the left? I don't think you can possibly deny that they are there. I've been aware of those since I became politicly active in my teens - and never felt comfortable with it even then.

All of the Jewish banker stuff; how the jews control the U.S and so on......

@Justhadathought

How have Palestinians benefited so far

Giant kitten, what do you have to say about the general and predictable anti-semitic tropes and genera Jewish conspiracies which lie not too far from the surface ofd many of the left? I don't think you can possibly deny that they are there. I've been aware of those since I became politicly active in my teens - and never felt comfortable with it even then.

All of the Jewish banker stuff; how the jews control the U.S and so on......

I’ve literally never seen any of that from those I know on the left. One of us must be mixing with the wrong people.

Thanks lydia7986 for your clear explanation.

Hear, hear, LemonTT

foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/18/corbyn-antisemitism-left-is-hurting-palestine/

An interesting article about the left's rabid anti Israel/Zionism from the perspective of a Palestinian.

Extract:

^For most of the left, both in Europe and the United States, support for the Palestinian cause is something of a shibboleth. As Israel moved away from the politics of the 1960s, when the left was often in power and kibbutzim were a national symbol, to the right-wing nationalism of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the U.S. and European left’s support for Palestine has solidified. Palestine has been brutalized by decades of occupation, and the suffering of Palestinians raises natural sympathy. Many left-wing Jews share this justified anger at Israel’s policies.

Yet both before the establishment of the state of Israel and since, it has been clear that some of the criticism was not driven by policy disputes or by humanitarian concerns, but quite simply by anti-Semitic attitudes. This has become more widespread as many on the extreme left see Israel as a classic imperialist state, acting as an agent of the United States in the Middle East and imposed on the region by outside powers. This is an interpretation that is not only mistaken, but also dangerous to the Palestinian cause itself^

[quote sergeilavrov]@giantkitten Investment into realigning economic zones across the bank of the Dead Sea, facilitation of huge increases in tourism, entrepreneurship grants and mentor ship, easier entry into Israel with work permit availability, reduced childhood mortality and longer life expectancy, improved training for Palestinian police (who work with the Israelis), a system to collect tax dividends, the emergence of a small civil service, financial and political support for a wealth of NGOs, scholarships and training for college aged students, huge support for the Palestinian cause within Israel as a result of these greater understandings - particularly in Tel Aviv. Would you like more?

You’ll also find BDS is hugely unpopular amongst Palestinians who live and work in Palestine. Boycotting their sources of income is a policy supported only by those privileged middle classes who have never lived there.[/quote]
I would like examples more specific to eg Gaza & West Bank residents, especially those whose crops have been destroyed & land taken.