How can you be transgender and non-binary?

[KingofDinobots]

Ok I’m genuinely confused about this.

An author called Fox Fisher has left JK Rowlings literary agency over transgender rights.

According to the Times article (sorry no share token) Fox identifies as a “transgender non-binary person” and uses the pronoun they.

I just....don’t get it? I mean if you’re non-binary you’re saying you don’t identify as either of the two genders, so how you can you also say you are not the gender you were “assigned” at birth?

Anybody explain this one to me?

According to the stonewall 'definition', GC women (who reject gender stereotypes) are trans. Except for some strange reason we're not, we're told we're 'Cis' and aren't supposed to dissent from having that identity foisted on us.

There was another stonewall doc which said something like 'anyone is trans who says they are for whatever reason' . (I've c&pd the exact words on threads in the past)

So, I’m a biological woman who menstruates, has given birth, and breastfeeds.

But I also wear trousers (don’t own any skirts), flat shoes, don’t like makeup, and am good at DIY.

Am I trans? Do I get a prize?

... anyone is trans who says they are for whatever reason except you, you are not a committed believer so you're not allowed.

100 years on I wonder what our descendants will make of this. However I am fed up of cis (!) males telling us how ! who should id as a female & what rights or not we should break if we say "hang on a minute this doesn't make sense" (ie people who menstruate - give me strength!)
Me - I am "merely" a woman/female who was born with a certain type of plumbing which can often be downright inconvenient & I prefer/feel more comfortable, when said plumbing is allowed a degree of privacy from those who have an alternative plumbing - because other "cis" woman, gay or not, understand & ignore any issues I may have or are supportive
OK? So therefore I am a bigot & not allowed to feel this way
However if toilets had full walls & doors that were private & good quality locks & the communal area felt safe etc - no problem. Hospital wards -no - just no
The issue for me is casual self id of gender - I think it needs to be fairly formal because of the risk - however small of predatory men who MIGHT use this against women

So many offensive things said on this thread. No surprise really, this is the mumsnet hive mind after all.

@KingofDinobots

So, I’m a biological woman who menstruates, has given birth, and breastfeeds.

But I also wear trousers (don’t own any skirts), flat shoes, don’t like makeup, and am good at DIY.

Am I trans? Do I get a prize?

It's amazing how little gold lamè features in the life of the average female, isn't it?

@KingofDinobots

So, I’m a biological woman who menstruates, has given birth, and breastfeeds.

But I also wear trousers (don’t own any skirts), flat shoes, don’t like makeup, and am good at DIY.

Am I trans? Do I get a prize?

The "do I get a prize?" comment is extremely offensive by suggesting trans people do it for attention

@GreytExpectations

So many offensive things said on this thread. No surprise really, this is the mumsnet hive mind after all.

Can you explain what a non binary trans person is, then?

And less of the hive mind. All it is is multiple people who disagree with you.

@ErrolTheDragon

According to the stonewall 'definition', GC women (who reject gender stereotypes) are trans. Except for some strange reason we're not, we're told we're 'Cis' and aren't supposed to dissent from having that identity foisted on us.

There was another stonewall doc which said something like 'anyone is trans who says they are for whatever reason' . (I've c&pd the exact words on threads in the past)

Yeah that rings a bell with me too. And something along the lines of "nobody can tell you what your gender identity is", which doesn't always appear to be the case, funnily enough.

So many offensive things said on this thread. No surprise really, this is the mumsnet hive mind after all.

What is a 'non-binary transgender person' then please?

Can you explain what a non binary trans person is, then?

This question has nothing to do with me saying the thread contains offensive posts, you just want to pick a fight.

Let me just explain my original point, just because you don't understand something it doesn't give you or anyone else the right to mock it. Examples of mocking are posts that suggest people only identify to "feel special" or for the attention as suggested by the "get a prize" comment.

So, what else do you mock because you don't understand?

@Highperbolay read my above post. Do you think that it's OK to mock something because you don't understand it?

Having seen this discussed a number of times I've come round to the view that arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin is pointless if you don't believe in angels.

Totally.

The "do I get a prize?" comment is extremely offensive by suggesting trans people do it for attention

I think many do. Especially woke youngsters who transition as whole social groups.

There was a "celebrity" who proudly announced a while ago (don't remember for the life of me who) that their son was now a non-binary transwoman lesbian...and everyone was like, erm, but how can they be a lesbian if they're trans non-binary? And they couldn't explain it, and just ended it with, well she can call herself whatever she wants to call herself and if she says she's a lesbian then she's a lesbian. I do try and Google these things to understand, but I still can't figure it out.

Fox Fisher was one of the people in "My Transexual Summer" several years ago. Fox at that time was transitioning FTM. I met Fox several times as Fox was involved with a charity I was also involved with at that time. Fox then definitely identified as male then and seemed to be a hero to other young FTM individuals. Clearly in the intervening years there has been a change in identification.

@YgritteSnow

The "do I get a prize?" comment is extremely offensive by suggesting trans people do it for attention

I think many do. Especially woke youngsters who transition as whole social groups.

Good for you. Have whatever view you want but don't deny that it's offensive to make a generalised assumption like that.

@mumwon

100 years on I wonder what our descendants will make of this. However I am fed up of cis (!) males telling us how ! who should id as a female & what rights or not we should break if we say "hang on a minute this doesn't make sense" (ie people who menstruate - give me strength!) Me - I am "merely" a woman/female who was born with a certain type of plumbing which can often be downright inconvenient & I prefer/feel more comfortable, when said plumbing is allowed a degree of privacy from those who have an alternative plumbing - because other "cis" woman, gay or not, understand & ignore any issues I may have or are supportive OK? So therefore I am a bigot & not allowed to feel this way However if toilets had full walls & doors that were private & good quality locks & the communal area felt safe etc - no problem. Hospital wards -no - just no The issue for me is casual self id of gender - I think it needs to be fairly formal because of the risk - however small of predatory men who MIGHT use this against women

I always go back to Safety, Dignity and Privacy. For everyone If we are informed that there is no risk to safety and have to accept it because we are told to, ok. (It really isn't ok!). However, if we are to accept TWAW because of how they feel, then I feel that my rights to privacy and dignity are compromised. And my rights are just as valid.

There are a few examples of entirely average couples in hetrosexual relationships who are labelling themselves as queer/non binary and are being lauded by the lgbtqi++++ community.

These people present as nothing other than a male/female couple and will have experienced no issues similar to a gay person.

For clarity I'm not referring to fox or owl

I think many do. Especially woke youngsters who transition as whole social groups

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/culture-mind-and-brain/201811/why-is-transgender-identity-the-rise-among-teens

This is a very informative about the trend.

How can someone so sure of their gender identification as to go through hormonal and surgical transition to feel "right" then suddenly decide that they are neither gender, that's what I'd like to know.

So you have no idea what it means either then?

I don't 'mock' because I don't understand. I 'mock' because this utter bullshit is damaging children who think that because they don't like stuff that society tells them they should, the need to get their breasts cut off and go on a lifetime of medication to 'correct' them. Because this utter bullshit means that women's right to single sex spaces are threatened and the word 'woman' is apparently 'outdated'.

I find that offensive.

So if you can't explain what a transgender non-binary person is, then I'm not all that interested in you coming on here to tell us off and tell us we are being oh so offensive.

@GreytExpectations you do not have the right not to be offended, you have the right to say what has offended you and why, you have the right to decide not to engage with things that offend you, but we all have the right to free speech.

Personally I find it very offensive when a man says he is a woman, that is my right.

It’s really perfectly simple. You are trans If you identify as the opposite gender, of course there are many genders, but trans are very definitely one of only two, whereas non binary are neither and thus in the middle of the two genders that don’t exist. If however you don’t believe these genders exist, then you are not trans, or non binary, but cis. This is because you identify as a gender you don’t believe in, but you’re not allowed to identify as any of the others unless you believe in the two genders, in which case you can identify as the opposite gender that doesn’t exist.