Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

[Shedbuilder]

I'm a lesbian and I mentally parted company with Stonewall and began opposing it and a lot of other LGB organisations when they added the T and then the Q and then all the other identity letters to the original LGB.

LGB people are united by same-sex attraction. TQ and whatever are linked by their insistence on identity — defining themselves by feelings or whatever. LGB people are united by their experience of homophobia. Transgenderism, and its attack on sex, is inherently homophobic. The two cannot and could never exist comfortably together. As soon as Stonewall added the T to their constituency, it began working against its core community.

Stonewall and other organisations have done this by force. Uncoupling the LGB from the TQ+ is one of the most important things anyone with a GC stance can do.

Please, let us work towards making the letters LGBTQ+ a badge of ignorance and shame, not something that employers should be plastering everywhere as proof of how progressive they are.

@MilleniumHallsWalledGarden

I'm not on twitter but had to read 3 separate articles about the attack before seeing the word "gay"

Wtf?

I am not talking about LGBT public groups, I am talking about Lesbian groups.

Women's aid have been called transphobic and most refugees have trans women inclusivity, those that have stood their ground on women's only spaces have been branded transphobic and been bullied and criticised. I remember hearing about a rape centre in Scotland who were branded transphobic.

If TWAW then that means that refuges and rape centres and women's prisons and women's psychiatric units and women's sports must accept TWAW or they are transphobic. That's the current agenda. Redefining "woman" creates opportunities for abuse of women and women's spaces.

I really wish there was a way to protect everybody and give everyone equal provision and protection, but why must the burden always fall onto women when it is men who create the fear and violence?

Why shouldn't lesbian gave their own groups without transwomen?

What lesbian groups are you talking about Fanta?

Re the Twitter thread, I can see why Pink News used the word queer. The men could have been gay or bisexual. Rather than get it wrong they used 'queer' which could mean either. That's not offensive.

@wrongsideofhistorymyarse

Why not indeed! It's a weird world we live in when that is not acceptable

Queer..

@Thisismytimetoshine

a lot of concern that trans teens are electing to undergo surgeries that they might later come to regret. Who do you think it is that can give them a broader context to their experiences? Who can empathise with their feelings and gently nudge them to consider other alternatives?

That should be a mandatory prelude to any surgery. By the physicians themselves, not any random bleeding heart passer by.
I believe it is for non trans surgery, but I could be wrong.

And yet it appears the job is not done adequately, right? And in the few professional hours that are allocated for this it must be hard to achieve for such a complex issue.

Which is why I believe it is important that young, female-assigned-at-birth, but now male-identified individuals, who may later turn out to identify as lesbians, are given access to broad spaces that allow them to discuss openly and freely with others who may be able share alternatives with them.

According to the OPs position on this thread, these people would be denied access to LGB spaces because they would identify as males in the first instance.

I have never understood why LGB groups were associated with gender identities.
Surely sexual orientation is entirely different.

I have always (as a straight women) been an ally to gay men, lesbians and bisexuals. I find it abhorrent that people are still persecuted because of who they fall in love/have sex with - as apparently evident in the Reading murders (only just seen this was the case)

It's really notable that in order to not alienate one group (those with a gender identity) another group (homosexual men) are alienated instead, and with a term which has history of being used as a slur against that very group. I wonder how they choose which group's feelings to spare.

[quote GracieLane]@MilleniumHallsWalledGarden

I'm not on twitter but had to read 3 separate articles about the attack before seeing the word "gay"

Wtf? [/quote]
Ive just said this to dh

This is the first ive heard about all the victims being gay

@Livpool

I have never understood why LGB groups were associated with gender identities. Surely sexual orientation is entirely different.

I have always (as a straight women) been an ally to gay men, lesbians and bisexuals. I find it abhorrent that people are still persecuted because of who they fall in love/have sex with - as apparently evident in the Reading murders (only just seen this was the case)

The basis for inclusion was the erroneous assertion that transgenders were homosexuals.

Which is why I believe it is important that young, female-assigned-at-birth, but now male-identified individuals, who may later turn out to identify as lesbians, are given access to broad spaces that allow them to discuss openly and freely with others who may be able share alternatives with them.

Yet all the evidence I can find points to the contrary - that the explosion in young, same sex attracted females identifying as male or non binary only began AFTER the LGB Acronym was expanded to cover AGP heterosexual men.

According to the OPs position on this thread, these people would be denied access to LGB spaces because they would identify as males in the first instance.

Well this is just bollocks, isn’t it? Feminism (and female spaces) is for female people, whatever they identify as.
Surely you know that the GC position is that sex is more important than gender identity? Because it’s a bit batshit that you would try and pretend the opposite.

I see the word Queer as being related to homosexual people in the same way the N word is to black people. Not to be used by other people, certainly not in the news, but for self use and as a way to reclaim it? That's a different thing.

Dead people can’t reclaim anything though, can they? So using a one-time slur to describe murdered men, who cannot object due to being dead, is crass and tasteless at the very best and actively hostile at worst.

That's wrong. It was transsexuals, not transgenders, who claimed to be homosexuals and therefore should be included in LGB organizations.

Rufus

Allie.
Allies.
Allied.
Alliances.

@DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong

That's my point, that it should not be used by people about gay men, but if any gay man choses to use that about himself that's not an issue. We should not be seeing slurs used in the media now.

Sorry if this is a dumb question or not the right place to ask but what does "queer" mean? Does it just mean gay? And if so, why is the Q needed as well as the G in LBGQ etc?

Thank you purple

Knew i was going wrong somewhere

thatmustbenigelwiththebrie 'Queer' is a catch-all term for being LGBT+ so people who don't want to be labeled or don't fit neatly into one label but it generally refers to being same sex attracted.

Bullshit. Queer is what straight people at Uni call themselves.

[quote GracieLane]@DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong

That's my point, that it should not be used by people about gay men, but if any gay man choses to use that about himself that's not an issue. We should not be seeing slurs used in the media now. [/quote]
I wasn’t disagreeing with you - just expanding!

I expect the journo who wrote the article identifies as queer, seeing as it’s Pink News, but not seeing it as a slur yourself still doesn’t make it appropriate language for a murder report:

Which is why I believe it is important that young, female-assigned-at-birth, but now male-identified individuals, who may later turn out to identify as lesbians, are given access to broad spaces that allow them to discuss openly and freely with others who may be able share alternatives with them.

I see your assigned-at-birth nonsense! Observed to be female at birth, please.

There's nowhere I can think of for young lesbians to go and have their sexuality affirmed that doesn't involve encountering men these days. There used to be, but then all those women's spaces were invaded by men and the women who are proud of being women and proud of their sexuality went underground. Look at the club night that Sappho took a screenshot of. It's a women's night and it's LBTH+

There is no escape for any young woman who is questioning her sexuality. Gone are the days when you could rock up at Silver Moon or First Out and look at the small ads and find proper lesbian events to go along toad meet lesbians. Or go along to a women's centre and see what lesbian groups were on, or join a women-only walking group or hockey team or whatever and find your tribe. Ten or twelve years ago I used to apply for funding for lesbian groups that included youth groups but these days everything has to be inclusive. All the money that used to go to lesbians now goes on the T.

Every event that I'd once have suggested young questioning women might be interested in has either folded or been infiltrated so deeply by transwomen that she's as likely to find herself confirmed in her transgender fantasy as encouraged to understand herself as a young lesbian.

What we need to do, once this is over, is ask people like JKR and her wealthy friends to help establish a source of finance to support young women's groups that aren't open to trans and aren't informed by transgender ideology. To teach them to love themselves and other women as they are, encourage them to think about feminism and get them of out of the pit of identity politics.

What we need to do, once this is over, is ask people like JKR and her wealthy friends to help establish a source of finance to support young women's groups that aren't open to trans and aren't informed by transgender ideology. To teach them to love themselves and other women as they are, encourage them to think about feminism and get them of out of the pit of identity politics.

This. So much.