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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Vice by Hannah Ewans, "Inside the Great British TERF War' (incl Hampstead Women's Pool, Manfriday, Mumsnet, The Guardian & a lot of false allegations)

86 replies

R0wantrees · 16/06/2020 12:43

(Long read)

'Inside the Great British TERF War
This is how the debate over human rights for transgender people ended up dominating mainstream media, poisoning newsrooms and dividing British feminism.'

(extract)
The reforms suggested by LGBT charities like Stonewall were fairly minimal: the recognition of non-binary identities, no medical diagnosis or presentation of evidence needed and self-determination through a more streamlined process. The media commentary around the subject suggested otherwise. As Faye says: “Suddenly there was a deluge of anti-trans pieces every day. The Mail and the Sun were happy to join in there, but the Times – which is a paper of record – taking a committed level of anti-trans stance... That’s when I realised we were fucked in terms of the media.”

The final domino to fall was the Guardian. To many trans people and trans allies, the one progressive broadsheet in the UK posting its editorial view on trans rights in October 2018 was almost as striking a landmark moment as the overall response to the GRA. Rather than support the fairly minor reforms to the Gender Recognition Act, the Guardian highlighted the differing rights of trans people and women. It concluded with something no one on either side would disagree with: “Social media have unhelpfully amplified the voices at both extremes of this argument. The current divisions are troubling.” Trans activists and allies noted that the editorial was fence-sitting: it didn’t entirely invalidate trans rights, but it did dodge the issue.

Faye – along with other trans writers and readers – was shocked. “That editorial was a slap in the face and a watershed moment for me too, because I knew I couldn’t, in all conscience, work with the Guardian again. I’m self-aware enough to know that people would think I’m a bit of a sell-out, and fair enough. It’s grim to be taking payment from somewhere that the next day may be running something transphobic.”

The editorial stance didn’t come without warning. Concerns had been raised by trans people and allies over tweets and columns by prominent Guardian columnists and writers Hadley Freeman and Suzanne Moore. In a March 2018 Weekend column, Freeman argued against trans women using women’s facilities, implying that the dangers of a move towards self-identification was a danger to the safety of women. She notably calls Mumsnet “a pleasing hotbed of radical feminism” (elsewhere, Mumsnet has been accused of radicalising a whole generation of transphobes, with one Outline journalist writing: “Mumsnet is to British transphobia… what 4Chan is to American fascism”).

According to some Guardian UK staffers, who wished to remain anonymous for fear of repercussions, distress arose among younger members of staff and those supportive of trans rights. “The editorial was clearly trying to avoid alienating that portion of our readership – but in doing so it created a false equivalence between the two views, as if they were both equally valid,” says one staff member. “This was obviously disheartening for those who believe trans rights should be protected.” (continues)

The reality is that there are relatively few prominent cultural commentators on gender in the UK. But as Dr Sophie Lewis claims, when speaking to VICE, they present a united front. She says that they have risen through the ranks together and have longstanding relationships of some kind with each other. “It’s obviously easy to overstate this because there are structural factors I think as to why and ideological terrain to the way it is, but it’s also just because they’re all mates: Julie Bindel, Suzanne Moore, Julie Burchill. These are – in some cases erstwhile radical – highly educated journalistic privileged people. They’re defending each other and doubling down, partly because of the interpersonal ties and British class society’s particular texture amplifies the echo chamber element of it

Against the unmistakable flavour of a cohesive defence, the very few trans journalists have a narrative of their own. Like Jacques, both Faye and Lees are withdrawing from the media due to the toll it takes on their mental health. This means transgender people are going unheard in the mainstream media, and the debate continues to be had by white women centring their own experience as it purports to trans lives.

Faye has written a forthcoming political non-fiction book about the systemic transphobia in British society and says, quite sincerely, that the hardest chapter to write has been on feminism (“without wanting to sound too self-pitying, I’ve been targeted very badly in the name of feminism”). Lees hasn’t written for a newspaper for the past two years. She’s semi-retired from journalism and doesn’t consider herself an activist anymore.” (continues)

Some might remember this as a British story of furious debate and outright transphobia. But its key theme is an imbalance of power – one weighted against trans people and present within the internal and external make-up of the media and public life today. British trans people represent an estimated one percent of the population. One in four trans people has experienced homelessness and more than a quarter in a relationship in the past year have experienced domestic abuse. Their plight is firmly a class problem when one in three employers is “less likely” to hire a trans person, and in Ireland, half of trans people are unemployed.

Those who oppose their rights are frequently white, middle or upper middle-class people, or working-class people whose successful careers have afforded them a significant measure of social mobility. They have concerns over being silenced and yet hold large platforms with tens of thousands, even millions, of followers. They appear on Newsnight, radio shows or in reputable newspapers everyday." (continues)

concludes:
When the Men’s Pond protest happened, the small group was led by one woman – and founding member of the #ManFriday movement – Hannah Clarke. In the Daily Mail coverage of the small event, Clarke was quoted at length as being “articulate, measured in her language, and solidly middle-class”. Her father is a retired Army major, magistrate and Tory councillor; her mother has also been a Tory councillor in the Home Counties for almost three decades. Her husband worked in finance. She’s never protested before, she told the reporter, but finally she has a cause."

www.vice.com/en_uk/article/889qe5/trans-rights-uk-debate-terfs

Flowers for all the women maligned by this batshit article (especially the wonderful #ManFriday women)

OP posts:
TyroSaysMeow · 18/06/2020 12:21

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OvaHere · 18/06/2020 12:30

[quote dayoftheclownfish]This recording posted by R0wan of the 2015 event is incredible ... Freddie McConnell speculating three minutes in whether it should be "legally mandated" that cis people meet trans people to eradicate their prejudices. What's with the carceral approach all the time??

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WspvIQEEt4o[/quote]
This approach seems like an own goal. I doubt these meetings would have the desired effect. Probably quite the opposite.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 18/06/2020 13:25

The people defending Lewis on that thread are why we ended up with this Tory government.

They can be as fringe and as radical as they like and can enjoy that position forever because they are safe in the knowledge that the public will never go for it and they’ll never have to deal with the repercussions of their stupid ideas.

I like the nonces, the murderers and the wife beaters locked up, and I don’t care how uncool that makes me.

In the AIBU on Asda’s paedophile grooming links I posted this story, www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8280241/amp/Mother-fought-paedophile-swung-knife-demanding-car-keys-jailed-six-years.html I mention it because the vast majority of women will fight you if you threaten the well being of their children.

Black mothers in America have a legitimate reason to see the police as a threat to their children, same as we mumsnetters have a legitimate reason to see transactivism as a threat to our children. They can wank about with their PoMo bullshit as much as they like, but at the end of the day, women protecting their babies will group together and support each other, against whichever threat confronts us.

I stand with black women, against racism, but that doesn’t mean standing with a tosspot like Lewis. Pile of old shite.

Deliriumoftheendless · 18/06/2020 13:43

Sorry, what is the AIBU Asda thread?

Deliriumoftheendless · 18/06/2020 17:21

Thank you.

ShangaLangCleg · 18/06/2020 21:22

Is it time for ManFriday to be resurrected? It's dormant but still exists.

bishopgiggles · 19/06/2020 10:37

I have to admit I thought ManFriday was a great way to get the point across, as long as no-one is having the piss taken out of them (I feel like trans men are already extremely disadvantaged by this whole debate and - generally - deserve support although obviously I am against gender ideology).

littlbrowndog · 19/06/2020 10:55

Deptford letter was the awakening thing for me

What happened there was awful

Jeez so many awesome women on this board

And how come the person who instructed men how to clear their hard drives of pornography is now a feminist. And often found talking on the telly as a feminist

FFS

Eo91 · 19/06/2020 11:32

@bishopgiggles

I obviously can't talk for all transmen but i agree that ManFriday was a great way to get the point across, especially with how much push back it recieved. Self-ID is an awful idea and I'm glad it's being so thoroughly challenged.

The TRA response to ManFriday really angered me too - ignore the voices of transmen in the day to day, but wheel us out to be the great victims when it suits the their narrative. It really helped me see the hypocrisy within our own community.

GreenieFingers · 06/07/2020 21:44

Fantastic thread and a great read-up of the ManFriday history. It was a superb catalyst for so much of the actions since.

Thank you to all ManFridayers!

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