Vice by Hannah Ewans, "Inside the Great British TERF War' (incl Hampstead Women's Pool, Manfriday, Mumsnet, The Guardian & a lot of false allegations)

[R0wantrees]

(Long read)

'Inside the Great British TERF War
This is how the debate over human rights for transgender people ended up dominating mainstream media, poisoning newsrooms and dividing British feminism.'

(extract)
The reforms suggested by LGBT charities like Stonewall were fairly minimal: the recognition of non-binary identities, no medical diagnosis or presentation of evidence needed and self-determination through a more streamlined process. The media commentary around the subject suggested otherwise. As Faye says: “Suddenly there was a deluge of anti-trans pieces every day. The Mail and the Sun were happy to join in there, but the Times – which is a paper of record – taking a committed level of anti-trans stance... That’s when I realised we were fucked in terms of the media.”

The final domino to fall was the Guardian. To many trans people and trans allies, the one progressive broadsheet in the UK posting its editorial view on trans rights in October 2018 was almost as striking a landmark moment as the overall response to the GRA. Rather than support the fairly minor reforms to the Gender Recognition Act, the Guardian highlighted the differing rights of trans people and women. It concluded with something no one on either side would disagree with: “Social media have unhelpfully amplified the voices at both extremes of this argument. The current divisions are troubling.” Trans activists and allies noted that the editorial was fence-sitting: it didn’t entirely invalidate trans rights, but it did dodge the issue.

Faye – along with other trans writers and readers – was shocked. “That editorial was a slap in the face and a watershed moment for me too, because I knew I couldn’t, in all conscience, work with the Guardian again. I’m self-aware enough to know that people would think I’m a bit of a sell-out, and fair enough. It’s grim to be taking payment from somewhere that the next day may be running something transphobic.”

The editorial stance didn’t come without warning. Concerns had been raised by trans people and allies over tweets and columns by prominent Guardian columnists and writers Hadley Freeman and Suzanne Moore. In a March 2018 Weekend column, Freeman argued against trans women using women’s facilities, implying that the dangers of a move towards self-identification was a danger to the safety of women. She notably calls Mumsnet “a pleasing hotbed of radical feminism” (elsewhere, Mumsnet has been accused of radicalising a whole generation of transphobes, with one Outline journalist writing: “Mumsnet is to British transphobia… what 4Chan is to American fascism”).

According to some Guardian UK staffers, who wished to remain anonymous for fear of repercussions, distress arose among younger members of staff and those supportive of trans rights. “The editorial was clearly trying to avoid alienating that portion of our readership – but in doing so it created a false equivalence between the two views, as if they were both equally valid,” says one staff member. “This was obviously disheartening for those who believe trans rights should be protected.” (continues)

The reality is that there are relatively few prominent cultural commentators on gender in the UK. But as Dr Sophie Lewis claims, when speaking to VICE, they present a united front. She says that they have risen through the ranks together and have longstanding relationships of some kind with each other. “It’s obviously easy to overstate this because there are structural factors I think as to why and ideological terrain to the way it is, but it’s also just because they’re all mates: Julie Bindel, Suzanne Moore, Julie Burchill. These are – in some cases erstwhile radical – highly educated journalistic privileged people. They’re defending each other and doubling down, partly because of the interpersonal ties and British class society’s particular texture amplifies the echo chamber element of it

Against the unmistakable flavour of a cohesive defence, the very few trans journalists have a narrative of their own. Like Jacques, both Faye and Lees are withdrawing from the media due to the toll it takes on their mental health. This means transgender people are going unheard in the mainstream media, and the debate continues to be had by white women centring their own experience as it purports to trans lives.

Faye has written a forthcoming political non-fiction book about the systemic transphobia in British society and says, quite sincerely, that the hardest chapter to write has been on feminism (“without wanting to sound too self-pitying, I’ve been targeted very badly in the name of feminism”). Lees hasn’t written for a newspaper for the past two years. She’s semi-retired from journalism and doesn’t consider herself an activist anymore.” (continues)

Some might remember this as a British story of furious debate and outright transphobia. But its key theme is an imbalance of power – one weighted against trans people and present within the internal and external make-up of the media and public life today. British trans people represent an estimated one percent of the population. One in four trans people has experienced homelessness and more than a quarter in a relationship in the past year have experienced domestic abuse. Their plight is firmly a class problem when one in three employers is “less likely” to hire a trans person, and in Ireland, half of trans people are unemployed.

Those who oppose their rights are frequently white, middle or upper middle-class people, or working-class people whose successful careers have afforded them a significant measure of social mobility. They have concerns over being silenced and yet hold large platforms with tens of thousands, even millions, of followers. They appear on Newsnight, radio shows or in reputable newspapers everyday." (continues)

concludes:
When the Men’s Pond protest happened, the small group was led by one woman – and founding member of the #ManFriday movement – Hannah Clarke. In the Daily Mail coverage of the small event, Clarke was quoted at length as being “articulate, measured in her language, and solidly middle-class”. Her father is a retired Army major, magistrate and Tory councillor; her mother has also been a Tory councillor in the Home Counties for almost three decades. Her husband worked in finance. She’s never protested before, she told the reporter, but finally she has a cause."

www.vice.com/en_uk/article/889qe5/trans-rights-uk-debate-terfs

for all the women maligned by this batshit article (especially the wonderful #ManFriday women)

Intelligent! Unlike me, clearly.

[quote R0wantrees]When the Men’s Pond protest happened, the small group was led by one woman – and founding member of the #ManFriday movement – Hannah Clarke. In the Daily Mail coverage of the small event, Clarke was quoted at length as being “articulate, measured in her language, and solidly middle-class”

Jane Fae has long expressed resentment towards the women behind #ManFriday.

September 2018 Fae organised a TRA conference, 'We're Still Here'. Dawn Butler MP (former shadow Minister for Women & Equalities) gave the keynote speech.

TheHarpySings reported from the event:
(extract)

"4) Equalities Act

So… there was a kind of informal meeting during lunchtime about The Equalities Act which was being run by everyone’s favourite advocate for extreme porn, Jane Fae. Edward Lord turned up, straight from a meeting with the City of London Corp. PlEASE NOTE THAT FAE AND LORD DID NOT WANT THIS SECTION TWEETED.

Edward Lord. He was dressed like Tweedledum. Or, if I’m feeling generous, a Mario Brother that doesn’t get invited to Xmas dinner anymore.

Mr Lord was very bumfaced about the Andrew Gilligan article about him in July and said that opposition to the GRA consultation just wanted to “cause mayhem.” He directly mentioned the Man Friday Hampstead Pond stuff.

Apparently “there have been no incidents of men turning up to the women’s pond but Man Friday turned up to the men’s pond and demanded admission- by force if necessary.”

As of 8/9/18, 15.5k people had completed the attitudes survey.

Lord said that TW were entitled to the protected characteristic “Woman”- he said the Gov dept on woman and equalities has confirmed this. Apparently the brave and stunning vexatious litigator Giuliana Kendall has something to do with this being confirmed.

Edward Lord is worried about the 125 elected members of the London assembly or whatever the fuck Londoners have governing the city. Not all of them are onside. He is worried that all of this is going to be discussed at committee and that “terfs are going to protest”.

Jane Fae said that JF has been in contact w/ YHA and GirlGuiding. Fae is of the opinion that the law doesn’t distinguish gender and sex. They are not defined and parliament will not define them.

The TRAs are fully prepared to take local councils to court of they try to invoke EA2010 for reasons of sex. JF was nodding at Giuliana when JF said this.

James Morton (Scottish Trans Alliance) said to be “strategic about test cases to ensure strong case law”.

Edward Lord agreed. He also said that the City of London Corp city solicitor and the Chief Exec are “strong allies”.

Regards the consultation doc put out by the City of London Corp… Lord implied that they were going to go through the answers and cherry pick the the qualitative snapshots.

One of the Mermaids mums in attendance said the “banner of concerned mothers of vulnerable children shouldn’t be captured by bigots”. Lord is meeting officers about how data is presented and is “conscious of that line of argument”

Jane Fae said the GC side are spreading a myth of predatory males- which doesn’t happen (!!! Lolz Karen White). And also spreading the myth that that TW are paedophiles (Loz Karen White x2).

Then (and Fae didn’t want this tweeted) apparently, there ARE terrible people exploiting The Equalities Act. And they are…

Man Friday
We Need To Talk
Fair Play for Women

According to Fae, all of the above have broken laws and engaged in upskirting and crotch shots of TW. Fae talked about debating Amy Desir of Man Friday about refuges. Amy talked about how female socialisation essentially stops us from refusing TW in our spaces.

JF then asked people not to tweet this next bit because it is libellous: Amy Desir took her husband into the Next changing rooms to commit voyeurism.
Fae (shouting): “Who is the pervert now?!!”

JF hopes that Amy and Man Friday are prosecuted." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside[/quote]
Jane Fae talking out of his extreme porn fetish advocating arse AGAIN.

Jane my love, if you are reading this and not masturbating to something sick and illegal, feel free to absorb the following points on which you are INCORRECT:

Amy Desir did not have a husband at the time of the Man Friday/Next changing rooms stunt.

Amy Desir did not commit or intend to commit voyeurism in the Next changing rooms (Luton shopping centre, lovely place. Absolutely fantastic response to our FPFW GRA reform campaign). The definition of voyeurism is the practice of gaining sexual pleasure whilst watching others engaging in sexual activity.

As I was the only other person in the Next changing rooms with Amy Desir, I can confirm that she and I used a camera phone to demonstrate the unsuitability of the flimsy curtains seperating each cubicle, which we then tweeted to Next. This is because neither of us believe that men who wish to self ID as women in public changing rooms should be allowed to, as it is not safe for biological women. There were no other shoppers or staff present in the changing rooms, and I can confirm that neither Amy or myself were sexually excited.

However, a quick Google shows me that Jane Fae appears to get his kicks from campaigning for the UK legalisation of all kinds of disgusting pornography, the common denominator of which heavily features violence against women, so he probably thinks that we are all as sick in the head as he is, right? Do remind me who the pervert is again, Jane?

I can also confirm that following on from the Breakfast TV debate between Amy and Jane, that he was an absolute arsehole towards her in private as well. Shocking, I know.

Also note: Amy Desir has undisputed ovaries of steel.

This recording posted by R0wan of the 2015 event is incredible ... Freddie McConnell speculating three minutes in whether it should be "legally mandated" that cis people meet trans people to eradicate their prejudices. What's with the carceral approach all the time??

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WspvIQEEt4o

I grew up on a council estate and am BAME. I am a Millennial.
Funnily enough, details 1 and 2 meant I never knew anything about transgender people until I went to uni and got lambasted for not being given the white middle-class memo about pronouns etc. I reached peak trans not so long ago so I'm not sure how common that is.
Transgender politics are another way of discriminating against race and class, as well as being fundamentally misogynistic.
Vice can fuck right off in a nice little circle of mutual self-affirmation. If they contact anyone here to write articles about you, watch out for them, they wrote a really shitty one about me last year after pretending they were taking a decent angle. They use deception to get you to talk to them or to get permission to use images etc of you.

the debate over human rights for transgender people ...

Sorry R0wantrees, the lies started in the very first sentence so I didn't bother to read the OP further.

Thanks for posting it, though. The comments are always worth reading. I started off feeling sick with anger, and ended up laughing and feeling good about women's wit and resilience.

The thing about gaslighting is that they don't stop doing it just because it isn't working any more.
That is true of the other abusive male tactics as well, DARVO, forced teaming, and psychological projection.

I’m having a little go at my own research too.

Does anyone know if ‘non-binary critic, SO Mayer’

In their contribution to the 2019 Ladies’ Pond essay collection At The Ponds, non-binary critic SO Mayer points out that the Heath’s Kenwood House was home in the 1800s to Dido Elizabeth Belle, the daughter of an African slave and a British naval officer. A decade after she arrived at Kenwood House, a marsh was drained to add to the reservoirs. Fifteen years later, just before Belle left the house to marry an abolitionist, Thousand Pound Pond (now known as Concert Pond) was dug.

“The fetishisation of landscaped parks created by the aristocracy and maintained by Britain’s colonial expropriated wealth, without any consideration of the history of its making,” Mayer writes on email, “colludes in creating implicit exclusions.” In other words: even the bucolic spaces that anti-trans feminists wish to protect have class and segregation baked into their DNA.

www.bfi.org.uk/people/so-mayer

And Sophie Mayer, PhD from the English department at the University of Toronto

www.sophiemayer.net/content/academic

Are the same person? Because they certainly have remarkably similar names and CVs.

Only, I doubt Sophie Mayer knows fuck all about how working class Londoners of white or BAME backgrounds use London’s parks.

What a load of old PoMo wankery.

I adorable the Man Friday women so much I could squeee.

Where, commentators asked, does that leave trans women, to whom the patriarchy proves an even greater risk?

I don't get this. Where is the proof that patriarchy is more violent, more damaging, more oppressive, more of a risk, to males in dresses than to females in any attire?

With a word like "proves" I expect proof. Studies, stats, actual hard data, properly collected and analysed by people who aren't unthinking male supremacists with no understanding of bias.

Where's the data showing that an ordinary straight white male in makeup is more likely to be sexually assaulted than a female of any description?

@WhatTiggersDoBest

I grew up on a council estate and am BAME. I am a Millennial. Funnily enough, details 1 and 2 meant I never knew anything about transgender people until I went to uni and got lambasted for not being given the white middle-class memo about pronouns etc. I reached peak trans not so long ago so I'm not sure how common that is. Transgender politics are another way of discriminating against race and class, as well as being fundamentally misogynistic. Vice can fuck right off in a nice little circle of mutual self-affirmation. If they contact anyone here to write articles about you, watch out for them, they wrote a really shitty one about me last year after pretending they were taking a decent angle. They use deception to get you to talk to them or to get permission to use images etc of you.

Solidarity, sister!

I’m not BAME but I am working class and attended uni as a single mum, living in a council flat on one of London’s most notorious estates.

Let’s just say that Goldsmiths was not a good fit for me 😂 and I graduated 15 years ago, can’t even begin to imagine how much worse it would be now.

My son is currently at uni himself and he reports similar encounters with the pronoun police. He’s even swapped courses to try and distance himself from the worst of it!

I am guessing it is because men kill other men more often than they kill women, so the rule of the father is more dangerous for men than women. DARVO!

I can also confirm that following on from the Breakfast TV debate between Amy and Jane, that he was an absolute arsehole towards her in private as well. Shocking, I know.

Also note: Amy Desir has undisputed ovaries of steel.

19 Mar 2018 Amy Desir on Good Morning Britain.

The parliamentary petition which Amy refers to at the end (when she gets a word in between Morgan & Fae) was successful in getting a government response announcing a public consultation & assurances that the Equality Act 2010 would have the single sex exemptions removed.

I adorable the Man Friday women so much I could squeee.

Sheroes all!

manfridayuk.org/about-us/

By ISABELLA FISH and JOANI WALSH FOR THE DAILY MAIL
28 May 2018

'Tempers at boiling point as female protesters break into a men-only lido in Hampstead and leap into the pool as they claim to 'self-identify as male'... for the day
One woman put on a bushy beard while another went swimming in a mankini
The women in Hampstead, North London, criticised gender self-identification
Police escorted the protesters out over fears they were breaching the peace'

(see photographs)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5780623/Female-protesters-break-men-lido-leap-pool.html

Not highly educated in the way that Hannah Ewens herself is - degree in Eng Lit form KCL, Master's in Journalism from City University.

Its unfortunate that such a privileged education failed to equip Ewens with research skills.

For all the talk about intersectionality being essential these days, the intersectional analysis in this thinking is laughable:
white - not great
white feminist - problematic
white middle class feminist - roughly the same as National Socialist

Upthread someone quotes JF as being packed by a man when entering a swimming pool early in transition and saying about this, that was when I realised men were dangerous.

For fuck's sake: JF knows men are dangerous, admits men are dangerous and the cheeky, arrogant bastard expects natal women to accept the mooted reforms to the GRC stuff and let men in women's spaces.

I'll stop now before I launch into a complete tirade...

Packed? I meant blocked.

[quote R0wantrees]I adorable the Man Friday women so much I could squeee.

Sheroes all!

manfridayuk.org/about-us/

By ISABELLA FISH and JOANI WALSH FOR THE DAILY MAIL
28 May 2018

'Tempers at boiling point as female protesters break into a men-only lido in Hampstead and leap into the pool as they claim to 'self-identify as male'... for the day
One woman put on a bushy beard while another went swimming in a mankini
The women in Hampstead, North London, criticised gender self-identification
Police escorted the protesters out over fears they were breaching the peace'

(see photographs)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5780623/Female-protesters-break-men-lido-leap-pool.html[/quote]
That Daily Mail article isn't entirely accurate. There were swarms and swarms of young, tanned men in their swimshorts sunbathing on the grass outside the Mens Pool that day. Generously taking one for the team, as I always like to do, I walked among them at length to hand out leaflets and engage in discussion to raise awareness of the GRA reform.
We spoke to literally hundreds of men in the couple of hours that we were there. In that time, only ONE man ripped up a leaflet and another made a point to really protest the tough time that trans people have. I couldn't help but think about the centuries of women oppressed by scolding, burning, FGM and child marriage as he spoke though, and how do they even compare. Sadly he was interrupted by a random guy walking up to us who took one look at my leaflet and then pointed at me saying "Sorry mate, she's right you know".
All the other men we spoke to just wanted to learn more. They were interested. They had women in their lives who they cared about to not be touched by this abuse of single sex exemptions. We were able to scratch the surface a little to get people thinking about it on a deeper level. If you think transwomen are women, does that mean you would have sex with one, sir? Ah ..... well ... no, admittedly it doesn't.

Upthread someone quotes JF as being blocked by a man when entering a swimming pool early in transition and saying about this, that was when I realised men were dangerous.

Fae had taken their young son swimming & was taking him into the women's changing area.
It seems an unusual decision so early in 'transition' particularly for someone so aware of their physical impression.

Interview with Daily Mail

February 2010
'The devoted fiancee who's sticking by her man, the father of her son, despite the fact he wants to become a woman'

(extract)
"Until six weeks ago, Andrea Fletcher was the partner of respected writer and journalist John Ozimek. She was the mother of their five-year-old son Rafe and very much looking forward to, one day, becoming his wife.

She has wanted to marry him ever since their first date seven years ago, walking along the pebbled beach at Aldeburgh in Suffolk, wrapped up against the cold and eating chips, and it is not difficult to understand why she fell for the Oxford graduate and former IT and marketing consultant.

A quick look at John Ozimek's photograph shows a handsome, seemingly confident, middle-aged man whose image sits perfectly with his intelligent essays on political and sexual liberty, censorship and data protection, which are regularly published on a broadsheet newspaper website.

Publicly held in high regard, in private, too, he was all Andrea could have hoped for. Kind, gentle, honest, reliable, he is a devoted father not only to their son, but to his 16-year-old daughter Natasha from a previous marriage and Andrea's daughter Meg, also 16, from her previous marriage.

Yes, Andrea would have loved to become Mrs John Ozimek. She still would. Only John Ozimek doesn't exist any more. Andrea's partner is now called Jane Fae.

Just after Christmas, when Andrea had given John a nice sweater and a chunky silver bracelet, he confessed that ever since he was in his teens he'd never felt happy as a man, could no longer repress his true feelings, and wanted to live as woman." (continues)

Jane knows that at 6ft 3in tall, with size 11 feet and thinning hair, she does not 'pass' very convincingly as a woman, but she insists she is happy in a way she never was as man.

Arriving with Andrea at the hotel where we meet, Jane has chosen her clothes with care: a long, plum-coloured skirt, matching sweater and black suede knee-length boots. Her make-up is understated and her nails are painted pink. She has recently lost three stone because: 'It's OK being a fat middle-aged bloke, but not a fat middle-aged woman.'

She says she does not want to look like a man in drag or a 'freak show', but she certainly attracts curious glances wherever she goes. " (continues)
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1252462/Andrea-Fletcher-devoted-fiancee-whos-sticking-man-John-Ozimek-despite-fact-wants-woman-named-Jane-Fae.html

She has recently lost three stone because: 'It's OK being a fat middle-aged bloke, but not a fat middle-aged woman.
Mind. Blown.

We spoke to literally hundreds of men in the couple of hours that we were there. In that time, only ONE man ripped up a leaflet and another made a point to really protest the tough time that trans people have. I couldn't help but think about the centuries of women oppressed by scolding, burning, FGM and child marriage as he spoke though, and how do they even compare. Sadly he was interrupted by a random guy walking up to us who took one look at my leaflet and then pointed at me saying "Sorry mate, she's right you know".
All the other men we spoke to just wanted to learn more. They were interested. They had women in their lives who they cared about to not be touched by this abuse of single sex exemptions. We were able to scratch the surface a little to get people thinking about it on a deeper level. If you think transwomen are women, does that mean you would have sex with one, sir? Ah ..... well ... no, admittedly it doesn't.

If only those men would mobilise to support the reinstating of the single sex ponds.

Also worth remembering that lord Mansfield lived at Kenwood- he was lord chancellor who made the ruling about slaves being people not goods, which led to significant turn in abolitionist cause. It’s a bit more convoluted that in the film Belle, but essence is there. Also ruled against slave traders in other significant cases.
Re the Guardian, it does suggest that there are or may be voices inside the organisation other than the names mentioned who can’t speak out or would provide a perspective if they were given space to write from a gc feminist perspective

"Tell me why I should take seriously latest @VICE explainer for US market on "British TERFS" when it quotes Sophie Lewis as authority - she who wants to abolish the family, says there two kind of penises ("biocock" and dildos), and wants to abolish the police and prisons? t.co/bCldthU6SC "

twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1272845956317356032?s=19

"Women and girls deserve so much more from feminism than this flashy, attention-seeking crap. It all sounds so radical on the surface but it's so superficial & reactionary. It leaves all the old structures in place (like males not going to prison for harming women with "biococks")"

There's a certain kind of white middle class radical these days that can take full advantage of what "imperialist" institutions have to offer (like Oxford - for 2 degrees) before moving on to write for capitalist publications about how shit whiteness/capitalism/ imperialism are. t.co/rgCsFLwcDr

I mean, come the fuck ON. "Her work focuses on eugenic, bioconservative and imperial feminism, queer and trans social reproduction, Black feminist family abolitionism, hydrofeminism, postgenomics, and Marxist-feminist accounts of care". I personally cannot wait til the next/

generation of smart as a whip female feminist authors skewer this stuff in campus satire and show it up for the parodic shell of meaning it really is."

Sophie's incredibly mature, persuasive response to Kathleen:

twitter.com/reproutopia/status/1272901278000205824?s=19

Idk does anyone wanna tell her why

Say it: TERFism is anti-black!!!!!!!!!!!

While my @ are overflowing with TERFs calling me racist for opposing their structurally antiblack ideology, I'm certainly not gonna tag the practitioners of the abolitionist black transfeminism that has educated me about this (the coloniality and antiblackness of binary gender)!!

I shouldn't be surprised I guess? But the fact that these "gendercrits" have never heard of critiques of the family, and think that prison & police abolition is an ELITE WHITE theoretical position... IN THIS MOMENT?! ..... "read the room, Karen" barely begins to cover it, does it

Sophie is ignoring the many black women in the replies telling her she is wrong, of course.