This is what TRA are circulating to act to the gender rights new this week

[MrsPeacockInTheLibrary]

This is what the TRA are circulating. We need to act also.

CN: trans rights. GRA consultation.

(for those of you who need to conserve spoons and emotional energy at the moment)

(OP - I shared this from a lesbian friend who is furious at what she sees going on with some of her friends silencing debate etc)
If like me you are upset and angry about the response to the consultation and anti-trans proposals leaked in the Sunday Times a very trusted friend posted this regarding some urgent action you can take today and tomorrow:
"The Sunday Times article admits Boris Johnson hasn't yet agreed to Liz Truss's proposals. Liz Truss is due to speak in parliament about equalities this Wednesday morning. So Boris is likely being asked to agree to the proposals within the next 48 hours. The Sunday Times article is an attempt to push him to approve and to check what level of public objection there will be.
So get as many people as possible to URGENTLY call on Boris not to take forward any of these proposals by tweeting @BorisJohnson @10DowningStreet and emailing using the webform at email.number10.gov.uk"
[Zan: note the form is limited to 1000 characters for the response. Below are some suggestions of points to make from the post although you probably won't have space to include them all]
"Our best chance of stopping this is to make Boris Johnson feel it could be personally toxic as a legacy and a headache he can do without. If he doesn't sign it off, Liz Truss can't do it.
Get as many cis women allies as possible to complain that these proposals will harm them as well as trans women. That any tall woman, or flat-chested woman, or deep voiced woman, or butch woman, would be at risk of being excluded from women's services and toilets - there's no way for her to prove she's not trans - and men will likely use these proposals as a mandate to grope women's genitals on the pretext of protecting other women by checking if she has a penis.
Get as many allies as possible to also point out that these proposals would force cash strapped local councils to waste public money hiring toilet genital police to patrol toilets and demolishing long established gender neutral facilities from existing schools and leisure centres. What an atrocious waste of money during an economic crisis.
Try and get opinion pieces and letters to the editor by cis women into newspapers today and tomorrow. Try and get women's orgs of any size to publicly denounce the proposals as unnecessary and harmful to all women and girls, not just trans women. Get them to say there's nothing wrong with the way single sex services are currently operating and these proposals could even result in less provision of single sex services and closure of local authority public toilets."

"Get as many cis women allies as possible to complain that these proposals will harm them as well as trans women. That any tall woman, or flat-chested woman, or deep voiced woman, or butch woman, would be at risk of being excluded from women's services and toilets - there's no way for her to prove she's not trans - and men will likely use these proposals as a mandate to grope women's genitals on the pretext of protecting other women by checking if she has a penis."

Well, I'm fucked - tall, penisless me.

Jeepers. The irony that tall/flat chested/butch women may be questioned because of their own trans umbrella demands completely lost on them.

That any tall woman, or flat-chested woman, or deep voiced woman, or butch woman, would be at risk of being excluded from women's services and toilets - there's no way for her to prove she's not trans

Medium article by Dr Katie Alcock, Lancaster University lecturer, Developmental Psychology:

'But HOW CAN YOU TELL'

(extract)
"Sadly members of the public are not allowed to stand up in employment tribunals and say “Please sir, please Mr Judge, I know the answer” but I was sorely tempted to give it a go. Maya [Forstater] had persuaded the barrister for her ex-employer to stop saying that sex is “assigned at birth” but rather is observed from a baby’s genitals (and, rarely, if necessary, through DNA testing).
The barrister went on to ask how Maya could tell that someone is male or female without having been present at that person’s birth. Happily the rest of us live in the real world where it is pretty easy to work out whether someone is male or female: and no, it doesn’t depend on whether they have highlighted cheekbones and manicured fingernails.
So, how do we tell whether someone is male or female? Well, we are very good at it and — like a lot of human cognitive skills — we base it on a number of cues (pieces of information). In fact, we’re very good at it from the time we are tiny babies."(continues)
medium.com/@katieja/but-how-can-you-tell-7901324d0919

If it's going to be toxic and divisive (and God knows the TRA lobby have ensured it so far, the sheer nastiness of it all has been everywhere since JK Rowling spoke) then the law will be left with the status quo.

But them arguing that tall women, flat chested and butch women are so indistinguishable from men that women won't be able to tell, so let men in all women's facilities, and still not giving a crap about the real and vulnerable female people who will be excluded in their mad utopia, should help Boris a whole lot if he has any lingering doubts.

The level of batshit is unbelievable.

Plus by this point the govt has figured out that the lobby drowns them and everyone else in emotive emails and hyperbolic social media flooding and gaming consultations to get their way: they've probably by this point successfully trained everyone in looking around for the other voices and saying "What are we missing here?"

Wait, this is trying to tell women that if they are tall, deep-voiced or flat-chested that they look like a man and nobody can tell the difference?

Way to get the sisters onside.

Assuming the TRAs would also have tried to influence yesterday’s poll in the Sunday Times, they failed to get more than 5% of the vote.

Which rather confirms that the 70% who allegedly supported GRA reforms was the result of gaming.

Wait, this is trying to tell women that if they are tall, deep-voiced or flat-chested that they look like a man and nobody can tell the difference?

Yup. They sound like a bunch of deranged fundamentalists who have a very narrow idea of what women are supposed to look like.

@R0wantrees
Thank you for that link it's great to have something to have as evidence for what we all know to be true. I don't really think tall/flat chested/butch women will be questioned by other women, I'm just trying to follow the 'logic'.
I keep going back to what you posted though. The hypocrisy is just jaw dropping. The sudden concern for women excluded from single sex spaces and the asking for help from women's orgs to point out womens rights may be affected too. As that is arguement currently holds so much weight with the trans lobbies

"Try and get women's orgs of any size to publicly denounce the proposals as unnecessary and harmful to all women and girls, not just trans women.*

I mean come on.

Sorry what OP posted

So "these proposals" to maintain the status quo and not change the GRA, will somehow result in random men taking it upon themselves to act as "Loo Bouncers", grabbing women's genitals to check if they are concealing a surprise penis??

"Get as many cis women allies as possible to complain that these proposals will harm them as well as trans women. That any tall woman, or flat-chested woman, or deep voiced woman, or butch woman, would be at risk of being excluded from women's services and toilets - there's no way for her to prove she's not trans - and men will likely use these proposals as a mandate to grope women's genitals on the pretext of protecting other women by checking if she has a penis."

Totally. Deranged.

The link to this very thread might come in handy if contacting Bojo or No 10:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3940043-This-is-what-TRA-are-circulating-to-act-to-the-gender-rights-new-this-week

Lol, the desperation. Genital police?

Women, women, throw yourself in front of the bus to save the poor men.

I suggest that they should definitely ALL send that in. It is bonkers.

To use it to think men will be groping people to check genitals rather than a woman politely asking a male bodied person whether they are in the right loo and if that doesn’t prompt the male bodied person to leave, then it is highly likely that the woman will do what we normally do in that instance, leave ourselves. Well, if a male person was in a female loo groping, isn’t that proving that women need single sex loos? Or have I got that wrong and they expect that men will do the crutch search in the men’s toilets to any person looking/dressing like a women there? It that is the case, it still is an acknowledgment that males display the statistically proven traits so the answer cannot be to make women feel even more vulnerable by forcing accommodation of males who present as women in female toilets.

Get as many allies as possible to also point out that these proposals would force cash strapped local councils to waste public money hiring toilet genital police to patrol toilets and demolishing long established gender neutral facilities from existing schools and leisure centres. What an atrocious waste of money during an economic crisis.

Mmmm.... toilet police ??? And which schools have ‘long established’ gender neutral loos?? They may have a couple spotted around with the traditional loos but if they converted them all to gender neutral that is a very recent thing and, you know, probably require no demolishing and very little change except for a sign.

I think these people have confused reality with a Viz cartoon.

I don't really think tall/flat chested/butch women will be questioned by other women, I'm just trying to follow the 'logic'.

Of course they won't. Dr Katie Alcock's article is a useful summary of how humans can recognise sex from a very early age.

Tall, flat chested women - so most catwalk models then? Funnily enough people don't tend to confuse those for men...

or flat-chested woman, would be at risk of being excluded from women's services and toilets - there's no way for her to prove she's not trans - and men will likely use these proposals as a mandate to grope women's genitals on the pretext of protecting other women by checking if she has a penis.

Too funny, that's me out of the ladies then!

And do men normally need to grope women to check what sex they are? How many transgender people pass so well that it's not instantly obvious?

would force cash strapped local councils to waste public money hiring toilet genital police to patrol toilets

I hadn't even got this far. Oh PLEASE PLEASE tell me they are actually doing this.

I think we'll look beyond nuts if we write to object to lack of genital police.

Actually, it's too ridiculous, even for people who think it's possible to change sex. I think it's been deliberately created to provoke an apparently deranged response.

That any tall woman, or flat-chested woman, or deep voiced woman, or butch woman, would be at risk of being excluded from women's services and toilets - there's no way for her to prove she's not trans - and men will likely use these proposals as a mandate to grope women's genitals on the pretext of protecting other women by checking if she has a penis.

Well, gosh how have we ever managed so far?

I think they will also look a little silly using the word ‘mandate’ because I am 99.9% sure bojo and his government are not about to mandate an authority to act as its representative genital checker.
I know we’re in the upside down, but that’s some serious ’shrooms they’re smoking.

As for their statement that a there's no way for ‘her to prove she's not trans’ to access women’s services, that’s just putting the ball in our court, because it argues against falsifying changing sex markers on ID documents including birth certificates.

So maybe more power to their wrist as they toss out other spurious ideas 🤷‍♀️

That any tall woman, or flat-chested woman, or deep voiced woman, or butch woman, would be at risk of being excluded from women's services and toilets

If they think women really can't tell a tall woman from a man, then not only do they need mental health support, they need an emergency trip to Specsavers.

Honest to god, how thick are these people?

I see now I have repeated the same point as almost everyone else in my bemused, eye-rolling haste to post

Ohhh the batshit gets crazier!

‘Get them to do ...’

Translation: recruit as many handmaidens as possible, using the disingenuous fallacy that this is ultimately for their own protection, as the primary function of the female sex is to act in service of the self-serving ends of the male sex.