Peak TERF

[MiraWard77]

Like many women I've been through a 'peak trans' moment sometime in the last few years.

We hear a lot about online radicalisation. I've heard GC feminism described as "a cult" and have wondered if I've been radicalised as much as the ROGD teens have been.

So if people have been radicalised to a 'peak trans' point, can the reverse happen?

Has anyone started off from a fully informed gender critical point and instead reached 'peak TERF' and embraced the flags and TWAW etc?

If the TRA narrative is valid, 'peak TERF' should be happening at an equal rate as 'peak trans'? Right?

Or does it depend on which "cult" you fall in to first as to which path you follow in learning about the whole field?

I don't get why it's called gender critical when the issue is with biological sex not gender at all?

Critical of gender ideology as espoused by TRAs, which goes hand in hand with the cult of trans ideology as it currently exists.

"and that they would rape anything wearing a dress"

From some of the stories I've heard from people who've been in or worked in jails, that's actually not so far off the mark, sadly. I would believe anyone in a dress with shaved legs etc, in a male jail, would likely be a walking target for a good kicking at least.

But these inmates need to understand they potentially pose the same threat, to the biological women in prison, and so they need to either woman up and cope in the male population, or fight/petition for funds to build new seperate wings.

There are potential solutions to all sorts of issues, that don't encroach on womens spaces and rights, but that would take more time, money, training, effort etc. Easier just to shove biological women to one side, and tell us to shut up and be nice, while they decide what it means to be a "real" woman and who's entitled to use our spaces. I read on another website, that TRA's were demanding fair abortion rights for transwomen. The type born with a penis, never had a womb, ovaries etc. The mind boggles.

"Under his eye"

Before I was exposed to virulent misogyny of the trans movement, I was quite prepared to use pronouns, prob would have been accepting of trans women in some female spaces, ( admittedly before I discovered that the tackle was still likely intact).

However, I have zero tolerance for the movement now. I know there are many perfectly lovely transwomen out there and I would campaign on their behalf for their own facilities and/or getting males to sort their shit out, but I'm not willing to share intimate spaces. It's too much risk, and the fact that this movement has attempted to force women to do this without their consent is the very thing that I will push back on.

Not to mention the creepy obsession with transing kids when they are clearly attached to their own cocks and bloody fond of threatening women with them. For the 'Trans Allies' out there, their silence on this blatant abuse is sickening. The fucking hypocrisy of those allies 'calling out ' The Sun' over that headline last week when they have tacitly endorsed this abuse of women for years. Abuse enablers, the lot of them.

J K Rowling checkmated them and they still don't know what the fuck happened

I've gone back and forth a bit. Very GC but also coming to the realisation that now we have more info about gender dysphoria and that there is no other way to help them and that therapy does not work, then surely we have to accept the sense of gender identity is real. If it really is that, what else can we do?

It's al the non binary stuff I don't get..

I think the question "what would make me change my mind" is actually a very important one. Because if nothing would ever make me change my mind then I'm just as tribal and dogmatic.

I think what would change my mind would be a definition of what a woman or man is that is both non-circular and reflects ordinary every day experience, that then fits the trans narrative. I must admit that I come from this as a Thomist- having had a decades long interest in medieval philosophy, I would refer to Jacques Maritain: that knowledge is impossible without essence- if we are unable to clearly state what something means then discourse, meaning and intelligibility are impossible, and it is the death of all knowing.

So yes, I would stake my flag to the mast on those conditions- a non circular definition that reflects ordinary experience would be something that is crucial to me changing my mind

Gender identity as a sense is neither here nor there. It does not trump material reality.

This is an issue of absolutes. Biological fact.

That's interesting @ItsAllGoingToBeFine, though I don't recognise any of the experiences they say Amy Dyess had.

@FWRLurker "Women are now reasonably wary of anyone who looks male in their private spaces." that's actually a fair point. I've become much more wary of many types of people.

@BobbieDraper "I always thought, why wont they accept their own space? Why do they need to take ours. But if you ask that on Twitter or something, you end up with a stream of sexually violent threats."

And isn't that exactly why women don't really want to share their spaces with transwomen?

@DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong "GRC only becomes important if you want to get married in your new legal sex "

But now that marriage and civil partnership are legal to all, then there's no issue there either?

The simple politics graphic released earlier suggested that changes to the GRC would change a persons sex on their birth certificate. I'm a bit concerned that's a medically and ethically dangerous thing to do. And actually transphobic - to hide the trans reality which should surely be celebrated?

@Hiddenmnetter thank you for that. I'd be interested in hearing more from you.

Do you think there's anything that would convince you to agree with TRAs and self-ID etc?

Maybe when they come up with a definition of woman that makes sense, isnt circular, doesn't rely on stereotypes and actually includes cunty type women.

"Because if nothing would ever make me change my mind then I'm just as tribal and dogmatic."
This is what I'm interested in, but don't have the wisdom or training to articulate.

Trans people can be and are victims of sexual assault. That's a fact.

I was first a victim of sexual assault at the age of 14. I was grabbed by the breasts in my form room by a boy I had previously thought was a friend. That was the first of many indignities. Would you like to hear about them all? I am very aware of the risk of sexual assault and I do not care if a man feels threatened and thinks he should come and hide behind my petticoats.

Baby
How many have dysphoria? The trans movement have pushed hard to have the dysphoria aspect considered redundant. Stonewall's umbrella includes people with AGP / cross dressers.

And that the self ID thing hadn't been front and centre of their campaigning us simply lies. That and dismantling the protections for sex as a protected characteristic. They are submissions to the government stating this, including from Gendered Intrlligence, STA and LGBT Youth Scotland.

Because if nothing would ever make me change my mind then I'm just as tribal and dogmatic

I don't agree actually. If we're talking about biological sex then there is no argument to make.

I’m sure some people do have gender Dysphoria. They have a sense of their gender that is distinct from what their body suggests. But Dysphoria means ‘uncomfortable feeling’. It doesn’t mean ‘born in the wrong body’.

Lots of TRAs including I think India Willoughby use a diagnosis of gender Dysphoria as a gotcha. As if it means a doctor told them they were actually women. When it actually means a doctor told them they were uncomfortable being men. Not that they are not men. Because they are men. Always have been. Always will be.

By all means wear dresses and have a feminine name if it makes you feel better. But you are not a woman unless you were born one.

Men who hate being men are still men. Effeminate men are still men. Men who reject masculinity are still men.

What this comes down to is the ferocious policing of masculinity and the belief that if you fail on some level at being a man you must be a woman. Because women are just broken men.

You think trans women after years of medical transition stand a decent chance of fighting off a man?

You have some interesting ideas about what hormones can realistically achieve. Should skinny men also be allowed in the women’s? Effeminate men?

@FliesandPies

Because if nothing would ever make me change my mind then I'm just as tribal and dogmatic

I don't agree actually. If we're talking about biological sex then there is no argument to make.

Agreed.

It is not a belief system being discussed, it is not a difference of opinion.

But now that marriage and civil partnership are legal to all, then there's no issue there either?

I’d say not but for some trans people it’s v important (because they want to be husband and wife rather than say, husband and husband or wife and wife or vice versa) or because they want a church service.

Is the law on same sex marriage now exactly the same? Last time I checked there were still some differences that come into play in divorce proceedings?

If there are still differences I very much support those being equalised in every way.

But Dysphoria means ‘uncomfortable feeling’. It doesn’t mean ‘born in the wrong body’.

Lots of TRAs including I think India Willoughby use a diagnosis of gender Dysphoria as a gotcha. As if it means a doctor told them they were actually women. When it actually means a doctor told them they were uncomfortable being men. Not that they are not men. Because they are men. Always have been. Always will be.

This x1000. A doctor has decided that your ideas about yourself and gender cause you enough distress that it interferes with your life - great. Doesn’t mean anything more than that. As for the poster above making claims about medical and/or surgical ‘transition’ being established as the best available treatment - evidence, please.

Magical thinking and nonsensical anti-scientific belief system vs. biological fact and material reality...nope, sorry, there is no need for me to dissect my own thinking and my own bias in order to justify my ‘dogma’.

I deal in absolutes.

@growinggreyer

I am not dismissing your experiences; to do so would be to dismiss the male violence I, myself, have also experience. It would be dismissing the lived experience of every woman who has suffered at the hands of a man.
No one here has done that. It would be very wrong.

It is also wrong, however, to dismiss the lived experiences of many trans people who have also suffered at the hands of violent men. That is what you did in your comment, and it is very wrong.

Abuse of women and abuse of transwomen are not mutually exclusive. They both can, and do, occur. To ignore that is despicable.

I didnt say that trans-women after surgery SHOULD be granted access to our spaces. I said they are at risk from men and that cant be ignored. Because of that, I dont know if I could demand they left a women's toilet, if they had no other safe location to use.

I want to know why we cant have trans only spaces, why do they need ours? But, when you ask that, the response is usually violent.

I'm trying to be protective of womens rights whilst still acknowledging the plight of transpeople and working towards a solution, but they dont want their own space. They want ours. And in my naivety and newness to this topic, I dont understand why.

Oh I am certain that some do have dysphoria and they have my every sympathy.

But the trans movement and Stonewall in particular have fought hard to remove the requirement of dysphoria to define transgender.

And I am sure as fuck that I don't want to share female spaces with males with AGP

@BabyLlamaZen

I've gone back and forth a bit. Very GC but also coming to the realisation that now we have more info about gender dysphoria and that there is no other way to help them and that therapy does not work, then surely we have to accept the sense of gender identity is real. If it really is that, what else can we do?

Is there any evidence that therapy doesn't work? Due to the Memorandum of Understanding about 'conversion therapy' from a couple of years ago, it is now very difficult for anyone with gender dysphoria to get any therapy which doesn't involve total affirmation.

www.psychotherapy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/UKCP-Memorandum-of-Understanding-on-Conversion-Therapy-in-the-UK.pdf

[quote BobbieDraper]@growinggreyer

I am not dismissing your experiences; to do so would be to dismiss the male violence I, myself, have also experience. It would be dismissing the lived experience of every woman who has suffered at the hands of a man.
No one here has done that. It would be very wrong.

It is also wrong, however, to dismiss the lived experiences of many trans people who have also suffered at the hands of violent men. That is what you did in your comment, and it is very wrong.

Abuse of women and abuse of transwomen are not mutually exclusive. They both can, and do, occur. To ignore that is despicable.

I didnt say that trans-women after surgery SHOULD be granted access to our spaces. I said they are at risk from men and that cant be ignored. Because of that, I dont know if I could demand they left a women's toilet, if they had no other safe location to use.

I want to know why we cant have trans only spaces, why do they need ours? But, when you ask that, the response is usually violent.

I'm trying to be protective of womens rights whilst still acknowledging the plight of transpeople and working towards a solution, but they dont want their own space. They want ours. And in my naivety and newness to this topic, I dont understand why.[/quote]
Here are a couple of threads that should hopefully help you to understand why a certain cohort demands access to women’s spaces:

General information

‘It will never happen’ resource thread

Also, feel free to look up AGP.