Why are the trans community blaming women for the actions of men?

[ShirleyPhallus]

I’m reading everything I possibly can in light of JKR statement (which beautifully articulates everything I feel)

One thing I cannot see a clear answer to though is just why all the TRAs are just so angry at women. I have seen a serious of tweets linked on Facebook that talk about how dangerous JKR’s thinking is to the trans community as it makes “people” (I assume men?!) think that trans women are not real women.

Leaving aside the argument of whether they are or aren’t, does anyone know why TRAs aren’t more angry at the men who are actually doing the rape / murder / assault that also affects women and why they’re angry at women for standing up for themselves? This is more than just misogyny surely?

The vast majority of the trans community do not know what a terf is. Considering there arent thousands of trans people asking what a terf is I think it's safe to say it's the TRAs and the reason they blame us is because they cant accept anything about themselves.

Instead of accepting this they push this fight because then they can wallow about not being accepted instead of facing up to the fact they're deeply insecure and nothing but hard work and therapy will fix it.

This is an unwinnable argument. They know that. They need it to be unwinnable because if they win they have nothing to cry about anymore and will have to admit they need acceptance from themselves. That's too much like hard work and responsibility.

Since you're back Burgundy, what about answering the questions I asked you earlier?

If you agree with 'trans' people not being excluded from women's single sex spaces, services and sports, where do you draw the line between people who are trans and people who are not? Is Karen White a 'trans person'? He said he was. How do you tell the difference between someone who is 'trans' and someone who is pretending to be? What does 'trans' mean to you, given that the Stonewall trans umbrella includes nearly everyone?

Because even though men are responsible for world atrocities, rape and murder, apparently women are to blame. It's the easy way out for them and we're not allowed to name the problem. The womb envy is strong with these lot. They call themselves women, but hate women at the same time. It doesn't make any sense but then again, men don't make much sense because all they do is NAMALT and "wOmEn ArE jUsT aS bAd" all over the place even when that's BS.

The "logical" and "rational" sex, everyone...or so they like to think. The only way women can be free is if we collectively decide to have nothing to do with men. Obviously that would be hard, but it's the only way. The testeria is unbelievable. By the way, I'm 23. So please don't lose faith in younger women.

Trans activists dont care about the violence women face because they are not women themselves.

It is interesting any aggression towards trans people is described as transphobic and not misogyny/misandry according to their chosen gender, if you see what I mean, even though they themselves want to be seen as a real 'man' or 'woman' without the trans prefix.

The fact they cannot see WHY we don't want to share some facilities with them PROVES they are not women, and do not live an authentic life as a woman. If they had to put up with half the shit from men that we do, they would get it, wouldn't they?

My ex literally told me that it's not the same as a guy hurting me. Constantly asked me "what are you gonna do when you cant claim a mans hitting you cuz no one cares about two women fighting".

If more police forces actually looked at a lot of the timings some of these mem "come out" theyd find it coincides with them wanting to deflect from crimes they know are viewed as "worse" or that women cant be convicted of.

No I think there’s a lack of informed debate on both sides. Disgusting social media comments by some TRAs countered by war rhetoric and the utterly daft “we see you” stuff

In fact, there is an awful lot of informed debate....but it is only coming from women's/& GC groups.

Over the last few years there have been numerous conferences, events & discussions taking place all around the country; at which manyvery well informed people have spoken, and attended. People who have identified as trans themselves, in the past; who identify as trans currently; parents of trans identified teenagers; the wives of AGP now trans identified men; professionals working in gender services; people working in various fields with direct knowledge and experience of exactly what they are talking about.

what they find when they turn up, having travelled often the length of the country to get there, is that trans activists have managed to get the venue to cancel; or they are met with screaming abuse; kicking windows; storming doors.

This is the reality of the debate. the position of the trans lobby in no debate They act like an invading colonial force, and care not one bit about the needs of women and girls.

You can't have debate, when there is a cancel culture; when people get no-platformed; when you are told there is no debate possible. You have to accept what you are being told and shut up.

There's been no debate in parliament, either - about the GRA The only time a slight window of possibility for debate opened was during the Labour leadership campaign... ( after years of hard work trying to information into then public domain by GC women ( & men)and what we were told is there is no debate TWAW and that's that.

I imagine people won’t engage because they consider the kinds of views expressed on these threads to be akin to racism or climate denial - Some views are considered so abhorrent its best not to engage and give it publicity. That might change if your views start to get taken seriously in which case they will have to be confronted properly (and not through abuse on Twitter). That’s a battle for another day.

Well as always please report any transphobia.

I imagine people won’t engage because they consider the kinds of views expressed on these threads to be akin to racism or climate denial

You're right, people won't engage at all. There is a cult like adherence to an ideology that permits no question. And as has been evidenced on this forum for many years, the trans allies that appear have no ability to debate; refuse to engage; hide behind no-platforming; are unable to respond in logical fashion to any point raised.

i think this is what has become of our culture in recent times. a real dumbing down: safe spaces: trigger warnings: no-platforming: cancel culture...and the adherents have lost the ability to debate; and lost the ability to empathise with others who disagree.

That is what we are dealing with. So, please refrain from false accusations of hated, ignorance and refusal to engage.

As I've suggested several times...to no response from yourself...Why don't you campaign for third spaces? nobody here is motivated by hate, but by self preservation and a sense of dignity. We don't believe or accept that it is possible to change sex; and we think sex matters and has consequences in multiple ways. We stand for the protection of women's spaces, services and sports, and for the right of women everywhere for the dignity, privacy and safety that has long been fought for...and is not yours to take away.

There is only conflict because one group is trying to colonise the spaces and understandings of another group. It they that are the aggressors.

Third spaces are the only way forward.

It is they that are the aggressors

Well as always please report any transphobia

As we all know 'transphobia' equates purely to disagreement and resistance to colonisation

Everyone is free to campaign for their own provisions.

That might change if your views start to get taken seriously in which case they will have to be confronted properly (and not through abuse on Twitter). That’s a battle for another day

This battle is ongoing and gathering strength, It is only when people have information that they can be informed. And when there is a black-out on information that makes it difficult. this is what we have been up against.

I reckon it is going to take a couple of decades to unravel the and un-pick this ideology; as the negative impacts and consequences become more apparent. But be in no doubt, we are 100% committed.

Hatred and abuse is one way. What JK Rowling and many others have been subject to is disgusting. The violence is all one way. The threats of violence don't come from GC women, they come from the trans activists. Naked hatred and aggression.

Some views are considered so abhorrent its best not to engage and give it publicity.

What abhorrent views have you seen here? Is it abhorrent to say that people can't change sex? Is it abhorrent to say that it's child abuse to teach children that they can change sex? Is it abhorrent to say that men should be kept out of women-only spaces and women's sports?

And you still haven't answered the questions I've asked you twice @Burgundy1844.

Here they are again:

If you agree with 'trans' people not being excluded from women's single sex spaces, services and sports, where do you draw the line between people who are trans and people who are not? Is Karen White a 'trans person'? He said he was. How do you tell the difference between someone who is 'trans' and someone who is pretending to be? What does 'trans' mean to you, given that the Stonewall trans umbrella includes nearly everyone?

Yes, @Burgundy1844 please report transphobia. It shouldn't be allowed to remain on MN.

“So, please refrain from false accusations of hated, ignorance and refusal to engage.”

Ive not made any accusations that you’ve refused to engage. Quite the opposite - you’re clearly desperate to engage, but people won’t for the reasons I mentioned above. It must be very frustrating.

For what it’s worth I agree entirely with you on this statement:

“ Hatred and abuse is one way. What JK Rowling and many others have been subject to is disgusting. The violence is all one way. The threats of violence don't come from GC women, they come from the trans activists.”

Although I suspect that there is a fair amount of hatred in some posters. Sometimes it is hard to separate fear from loathing.

Thankyou @CatandtheFiddle I have

Hatred and abuse is one way. What JK Rowling and many others have been subject to is disgusting. The violence is all one way. The threats of violence don't come from GC women, they come from the trans activists. Naked hatred and aggression.

Like this (just in case anyone hasn't seen it).

More here.
medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d

Ive not made any accusations that you’ve refused to engage. Quite the opposite - you’re clearly desperate to engage, but people won’t for the reasons I mentioned above. It must be very frustrating

Can I just say; I'm not desperate. But I am committed.

As for frustration, when you have been a political campaigner in one form or other for decades, you get used to the 'long game'. What I, and others, have learned is that there is little point trying to engage with trans activists. They simply know nothing other than cancellation, abuse, and no debate. The apotheosis of identity politics.

We realise that it is in the court of public opinion that daylight and justice will eventually come. That and a commitment to challenge every decision, and to take things to court when, and if, necessary.

Thankyou @CatandtheFiddle I have smile

Better that eh, than engage with the actual substance of the conflict.

Thankyou CatandtheFiddle I have
No deletions on this thread, so obviously no transphobia. So why are you refusing to answer any questions on here Burgundy?

@Burgundy1844

So many accusations of misogyny and yet the fear and loathing of men on these threads is palpable. It seems that for some trans people are an easy (and seemingly acceptable) outlet for that hatred. It’s not trans is it, it’s anyone who isn’t CIS female. To many women you just sound a bit unhinged.

Male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

Transgender advocacy maintains the social hierarchy while redefining homophobia and misogyny as progressive.

Of course we sound unhinged. We are talking about the systemic misogyny in every aspect of society. Naming the problem of male violence is considered far worse than the problem itself

No deletions on this thread, so obviously no transphobia

It’s funny isn’t it @OldCrone anyone would think we’re being rational and discussing disagreements respectfully. Which must be impossible as we’re all such wicked —witches— transphobes

If those disgusting tweets had been aimed at a female MP, and made by 'cis' men, everyone would be calling it sexist filth and rightly so.

I haven't even seen a mention of those comments in the news. Nobody seems willing to admit there is a very ugly and aggressive undertone to the trans lobby, and they're not all the fragile and delicate acting trans women we see on breakfast shows, facing down the mean radical feminists.

Burgundy

Loathing violent men who issue a non stop stream of sexualised abuse and death threats is a perfectly natural response. Are you here expecting women to be forgiving of them. We are not in church you know? Are you in a pulpit telling us to accept abuse with forgiveness? You are certainly giving that message.