To find it really difficult to support trans women now

[Shockedandbefuddled]

Some of the people who are threatening sexual violence towards JK Rowling are the people who want to access female spaces.

I really tried to be kind and support trans women. I know it’s not the general tone on here.

I was absolutely not willing to do it at the expense of women’s safety and dignity but felt there was a middle ground and the argument was too polarised.

I suggested my problems with self ID were the chances of predatory males using it to get in to female spaces. The twitter responses to JKR have demonstrated that some trans women will threaten another woman with sexual violence if they disagree with her views on womanhood.

Can these violent, hate-filled people not see what they are doing to there cause?

I apologise to all the decent trans people out there but some of the aggression has left me fearful that the loudest voices in the community are advocating sexual violence.

(Apologies for the repetition of violent / violence but ... )

@ClaraEccles the c word that's not cunt is banned on this site but it is the commonly used term for not transgender.

Please set out your reasoning.

I’ve just read a long, angsty thread on twitter about how awful it is to be trans.

How she gets groped, sexually assaulted, shouted at in the street. How she’s scared to do certain things in case she meets someone out to do her harm. How she doesn’t report it in case she isn’t believed, and it happens so often, every month..

I thought these people wanted the full female experience? That’s not trans love, that’s being a woman.

It is NOT the commonly used term for not transgender.

It is used by a very small minority. And is entirely incorrect, and entirely offensive.

Yes and I think she was saying that putting a lifelong experimental-drug fuelled label on a teen going through the same/similar is reckless because being 'trans' is a spectrum from "I don't feel "like a girl", I hate being a girl, what's "a girl" meant to feel like anyway?" (Which I certainly experienced) to "I'm looking forward to having a beard, bigger muscles, top and bottom surgery etc".

Give it a bit longer and Willis will be along soon. Call it TRA Murphy’s Law or something if you wish.

Fairly sure Willis has just gone fizzy & flowery on us, tbh.

@bishopgiggles

Think pp have run with the wrong c** word in that case.

Ah yes. My mistake.

Still offensive though given it’s not a word I would ever choose to describe myself, and would ask others not too.

to

FFS. More coffee required.

@Shockedandbefuddled

Some of the people who are threatening sexual violence towards JK Rowling are the people who want to access female spaces.

I really tried to be kind and support trans women. I know it’s not the general tone on here.

I was absolutely not willing to do it at the expense of women’s safety and dignity but felt there was a middle ground and the argument was too polarised.

I suggested my problems with self ID were the chances of predatory males using it to get in to female spaces. The twitter responses to JKR have demonstrated that some trans women will threaten another woman with sexual violence if they disagree with her views on womanhood.

Can these violent, hate-filled people not see what they are doing to there cause?

I apologise to all the decent trans people out there but some of the aggression has left me fearful that the loudest voices in the community are advocating sexual violence.

(Apologies for the repetition of violent / violence but ... )

that is basically my position too. I don't think I have ever ever heard a woman make a sexual threat to another woman. It would just not happen. and it shows me the clear gulf between TW and W.

I am increasingly seeing why there is no middle ground.

So non trans people can’t understand the experience of being trans or comment on it but biological males can so thoroughly understand the experience of being female that they know they are female and can dictate what being a woman is.

I think there is a middle group OP. Someone laid it out brilliantly on this thread:

I think trans women are women..... www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3935455-I-think-trans-women-are-women

Pretty sure ‘cis’ isn’t banned full stop, it’s left in posts all the time, but referring to people as ‘cis’ who do not identify as such is not permitted, rightly so. Pretty sure JKR doesn’t identify as cis, so saying she is cis-splaining whether you star out the word cis or not is probably not in the spirit, as MNHQ says. Personally I’m not going to report the post, though, as I think it’s quite illuminating in itself, I’m not one for too much censorship, I’d rather let the offending post stand and be countered.

Indeed Cwenthryth if only there was a word for 'not trans' that could be used without causing offense. Gay and straight is much simpler.

@Gncq after reading that link I’ll never support transgender people.

Is anyone able to post JK’s tweets here? Would be helpful, I think.

Saphos, have you actually properly read that OP and the thread? If you gave JK’s essay the same degree of careful and diligent reading might I kindly suggest you go back and read it again...

The thread you have linked to sets out very clearly the argument that men are men, with male bodies, and women are women, with female bodies.

Sex is absolute; It is biological fact, it is material reality.

All the rest of the nonsense is just designed to muddy the waters and make it impossible to protect ourselves.

it’s interesting how the first reaction of these “women” is to threaten sexual violence with their penises.

I think it’s obvious we are dealing with immature narcissistic transvestites with no critical reasoning facilities in these cases.

Ninkanink exactly. A middle ground is trans women getting the validation they want and women get the single sex rights and protections they need.

It's very difficult to think of a middle ground when one group cannot explain what exactly it is that makes some penises male and some penises female - but we can't see whatever it is, we just have to accept it. If anybody can actually explain this I'd be very grateful.

If want to know how women would like to be referred to, just ask them! @SapphosRock

I'm thinking of going for something along the lines of Daenerys Stormborn of the House of Targerian, First of Her Name, The Unburnt etc etc

Saphos please, do set out what that validation of transwomen might look like. For all people that come under the trans umbrella. And set out exactly how that can safely co-exist with women’s and girls’ rights and protections in law.

A middle ground is trans women getting the validation they want

So it IS about validation and not safety? Now it’s my turn for a disingenuous confused face

@SapphosRock

Ninkanink exactly. A middle ground is trans women getting the validation they want and women get the single sex rights and protections they need.

If men gave trans women the validation they want, trans women would be able to occupy males spaces.

Trans women don’t want that type of validation though. They are insisting women validate them. Anything less is literal violence.

@twoHopes

Many of the so-called trans people on Twitter are not even trans - they're fake anime avatar accounts created by men to bully and troll people. A lot of the really nasty abuse is also coming from "trans allies" who are nothing of the sort. Twitter isn't reflective of the real world and we shouldn't project this horrible behaviour onto all trans people - many of whom just want to live their lives in peace.

Sorry I have to take issue with this and refer you back to the post where it mentions that the trans lobbyists have been working insidiously for years to infiltrate organisations and institutions and highlights the ways that they have done it. The likes of Stonewall etc. Who, under the respectable banner of fighting for gay rights, has centred the trans agenda. Issuing incorrect guidance to organisations, schools, police forces, government departments et al. Creating an environment where even though self id isn't lawful, it is implemented as though it is. And anyone who challenges it is called a transphobe and expected to undertake training to 'educate' themselves (policy in my workplace). This is not just about a few angry keyboard warriors who hate women. This has been an organised campaign taking place under our very noses. And now is the time to fight back. The trans lobbyist tactics included asking for more than they expected to achieve. We should expect nothing less than the GRA being repealed. It is harmful legislation to women. Men don't even need a GRC to be able to change the sex marker on their passport. Employees in all organisations and institutions are scared to challenge for fear of losing their jobs. It is incredible that women have come so far in even a year. Down to incredible women like Magdalen Burns, Maya Forstater, Man Friday, Posie Parker and JK Rowling to name a few. Light is now being shone on this issue in a way it wasn't just a few months ago. It is not just confined to Twitter, not by a long way.