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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK new post on her reasons for writing about gender

868 replies

BlackKite · 10/06/2020 17:13

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

Enjoy

OP posts:
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18
MattBerrysHair · 10/06/2020 21:30

Marvellous brave woman. I'm still too afraid of the backlash share it on SM.

TheSingingKettle49 · 10/06/2020 21:32

I had taken a break from Mumsnet for a while but when I saw this on Twitter I had to come back for a bit of sense before my head explodes!

Looking at Twitter people seem to be framing this as ‘trans people are the most vulnerable group ever so no one can ever say anything about them ever, so shut up woman’

It’s totally reasonable for women to have concerns for their own safety and not want to share spaces where they may have to undress or be in a vulnerable situation with people who have different and stronger bodies than they do.

It’s also ridiculous to suggest that some men, a small minority I grant you, won’t use the opportunity to get into women’s spaces to harm women, especially vulnerable women like women in prisons or hospitals.

I honestly think what is going to happen is that the trans lobby will shout loudest and will get their way, until enough women are hurt and many more are unable to take part in public life because they’re to frightened to leave their houses if they can’t access women only toilets, and the general public see what’s happened and we get our spaces back.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 10/06/2020 21:35

I just read it and shared on facebook (I've followed and been liking things like fairplay for women for months - maybe years - and just recently stepped up comments after my sister said some ridiculous stuff).

Now is a turning point, thanks to her wonderful self - she can reach so many people who just wouldn't believe us otherwise because it's just so, so insane what's being asked of women.

NeverTalksToStrangers · 10/06/2020 21:35

I have loved this woman for years. She is incredible. Talented, intelligent, eloquent, funny. Wow. Just wow.

I'm actually disgusted at Radcliffe and Redmayne.

DeRigueurMortis · 10/06/2020 21:35

Fuck it....

I've shared it on Facebook - if there's one way I can thank her it's supporting her publicly (note I know this isn't possible for everyone) and if I lose some friends then I'm at a point I really don't give a shit anymore.

lrh3891 · 10/06/2020 21:36

I haven't read all the comments, the thread is too long. But I read the first 100 or so earlier and felt so positive, so uplifted, so...validated. And then I read this

https://www.vulture.com/2020/06/jk-rowling-anti-transgender-comments-blog.html?gl=11hg11obobgaYW1wLW1TQS1rWlh3ZmZEZ0FkUjBwa0YxUGpadUtvRDduZHd0b0hjeTN2NkN2LTgwMFR3M0V0WGFmZUxRbmp1cnNJY1Y.

PenOrPencil · 10/06/2020 21:36

Every time I think I couldn’t possibly like JKR any more she ups her game ❤️

OceanOrchid · 10/06/2020 21:36

I’m really surprised at the guardian. I expected a more “transphobic witch” response from them. Maybe they realised that their left-learning audience wouldn’t take kindly to them being horrible to a domestic abuse and sexual assault survivor.

KatySun · 10/06/2020 21:38

It is very well-written and powerful.

As a survivor of domestic and sexual abuse, I think writing that takes an incredible amount of bravery. It dismays me that women have to give away so much of themselves to make what should be simple arguments about the need for same sex female spaces.

I also would like to say that I think JKR’s daughter sounds amazing too.

YourVagesty · 10/06/2020 21:38

I had a moment of semi-clarity earlier where I realised that Twitter is really just the official forum for 'right-think'. It isn't for everyone and those who don't toe the party line should just stop trying to shove their square peg in a round hole, and leave them to their ever decreasing circles of victimhood and hysteria.

It's a playground for the worst type of people. Better not to engage. I now view it as a toxic medium, like all the macho forums where Incels hang out.

Enderthedragon · 10/06/2020 21:39

Emma Watson has retweeted a tweet from Paris Lees about donating to a charity for black trans people. I wonder if that is all she is going to say on it, or if she will comment further?

Franku · 10/06/2020 21:40

I loved it so much I had a cry and then fell asleep. Thank you Jo, you speak for so many of us, and express it better than I ever could.

Enderthedragon · 10/06/2020 21:41

Funnily enough, Jameela Jamil has been tweeting this evening, but hasn't mentioned this, usually she is all over this stuff like a rash!

Kit19 · 10/06/2020 21:42

If Emma Watson comments at all it will 100#% be TWAW & how sad she is at JK comments

She got on the TWAW bus a loooong time ago

CheerfuIPotato · 10/06/2020 21:42

I have no doubt that Emma Watson will throw JK under the bus but more subtley after seeing the moderate criticism her castmates have had.

I wonder what Rupert Grint thinks.

Michelleoftheresistance · 10/06/2020 21:43

I honestly think what is going to happen is that the trans lobby will shout loudest and will get their way, until enough women are hurt and many more are unable to take part in public life because they’re to frightened to leave their houses if they can’t access women only toilets, and the general public see what’s happened and we get our spaces back.

Once done, this will be almost impossible to undo, however awful the impact upon female people. Another reason to keep urging the govt not to rush into this without very careful thought.

How could it be undone? It would then be framed as removing rights. You couldn't create a new space for females; the issue now is that saying that female humans are different from males who identify as women, and those females have specific needs for spaces of their own and times when sex is recognised as the deciding factor denies validation of identity.

That is the sticking point. That all the time you meet female people's needs you deny validation of identity to the 100% degree demanded for those male people requiring it. That drive for validation is why no female need matters or can be heard or recognised.

The issue here is fear of boundaries, and to say no. That needs will be met, but that 100% cannot be agreed where it conflicts with meeting the needs and rights of another group. Now it would still be possible to separate gender from sex, and to provide third spaces. The public anger likely to be raised in the case of the inevitable harm to female people is another very serious concern.

CheerfuIPotato · 10/06/2020 21:44

I cannot stress enough my distaste for Jameela Jamil and her - literal - tweetings. She’s like an annoying budgie chirping away.

Tiggering · 10/06/2020 21:44

This is a beautifully written and heartfelt response to the awful tweets she received. I just shared it on Facebook and I’m waiting to see if I loose any friends over it.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 10/06/2020 21:45

Joanne Rowling is a magnificent woman. Knowing the abuse she would receive, she stood up for women and girls in such a well-considered and honest essay.

Her critics, of course, have seen her thoughtfulness and compassion and responded with respect.

Nah. Just kidding. It’s the usual mix of rape threats, ugly name calling and a fair bit of, “lalala not reading it and you shouldn’t either.” And then The Body Shop appeared.

It’s almost as if the TRAs have to respond with abuse because they have no coherent platform or actual facts to construct an argument with. I feel sorry for the trans people who just want to get on with life though - their community has gone batshit.

Enderthedragon · 10/06/2020 21:45

I don't know, I wondered if Emma and Joanne had had some conversations about this and that Emma had maybe started to think about things? After all, retweeting a link to a charity for trans people isn't really 'going against' what JKR said? I shall remain optimistic Smile

thisoneday · 10/06/2020 21:47

I have read Twitter (I am very new to this whole debate) and the thing that frustrates me the most is the lack of reasoned argument from the TRAs.

I am a lawyer. Part of my job is to critically evaluate argument. You can only undermine an argument if you understand what it is. There is no point arguing with the statement "they sky is blue" by saying "the sky has clouds in it". You have to say "I understand X is saying the sky is blue, but it is in fact green for these reasons".

I see no evidence of anyone on the other side of this debate having understood what JKR and others are trying to say. It is either (a) saying that she is bullying transpeople, without any explanation of why or what her motivation might be (b) that she doesn't really know what she is saying. There is no acceptance that there might be any points of validity in what she has to say.

I have not seen anyone say "I understand JKR to be saying this, however I don't agree that sex based protection is necessary because Y".

It may be because I am new to this that I have not read around the issue sufficiently.

Doyoumind · 10/06/2020 21:49

It's the number one trend on twitter and there is a huge amount of support for her.

What I really don't understand is the kpop fans. By adding to the tweets, they aren't drowning anyone out. They are promoting it and showing themselves to be silly children and drawing people to the reasoned and supportive tweets of so many. They only reinforce what JKR says. It's mindblowing that they think they are so clever.

OldCrone · 10/06/2020 21:50

[quote NotTerfNorCis]Twitter spin... "Many critics are calling the essay transphobic."

J.K. Rowling defends her controversial comments about transgender people

twitter.com/i/events/1270791381187874816[/quote]
I've just had a look at some of the tweets on there. They really have no idea how GRCs work, reform of the GRA, or the fact that nearly all 'transwomen' still have a penis (and have no intention of getting rid of it).

This one for example.
twitter.com/ryanjohnbutcher/status/1270761725630054404

"No debate" has been very effective at keeping the facts away from most people.

JK new post on her reasons for writing about gender
Michelleoftheresistance · 10/06/2020 21:52

If Emma Watson has one grain of sense at this point she will be very careful not to get drawn in to this or say anything about it and avoid the damage to her career that Radcliffe and Redmayne have just done.

ofwarren · 10/06/2020 21:53

Shes front page of the Telegraph tomorrow
twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1270820831065780224?s=20

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