Pro-woman is just a euphemism for transphobic

[Littlemeadow123]

Exactly that.

Transgender people are not eroding our rights as women. Although, the people making such spiteful and ignorant comments and talking about trying to stop them getting recognized as women are eroding their rights to be accepted, respected equal. Do you all honestly think that by speaking out AGAINST transgender people, you are going to be declared as heroes?

And what happened to be kind?

@Burgundy1844. By bigot do you mean someone who doesn’t believe that people can change biological sex (either MTF or FTM)?

That’s not bigoted, it’s just having critical thinking skills and not getting sucked into stating an emperors new clothes position in order to “be kind”

Doesn’t mean that we want any harm to come to transsexuals. Just that they can’t claim to be women.

@Burgundy1844

You mean the rights that some women have at law but seemingly not all women.

Lovely, what rights should we be including in our fight to make sure women's rights protect the interests of women that have not been defined well enough and is leaving other females exposed?

While we are focused on our fight, it is important to make sure that the current laws are working to protect females. eg. making sure the rough sex laws are strong for instance.

@Burgundy1844

I’d stay out of the feminism chat threads if I were you OP. They’re just a refuge for bigots. History will judge them.

Dictionary definition of bigot

Irony overload

📢EXCUSE ME! 📢 shouts from back of crowded room

notreallybotheredaboutausernam

As a self confessed radical feminist, do you believe that women should continue to have all the rights they currently have in law?

I do hope the schools/Uni go back soon. It might curtail the number of ploppers on these posts.

@DickKerrLadies put me down as someone who think the rights should be afforded to all women. Simple.

Sure it is OP 🙄

Burgundy1844

You mean the rights that some women have at law but seemingly not all women.

What specific rights only apply to some women?

Lets not be disingenuous here, this is about whether you believe it is important to maintain the rights that female humans have in order to meet needs specific to being born with female human biology

or whether some of those rights should be removed - with the ensuing harm and exclusion of many vulnerable female groups - to enable male humans to identify as women without barriers to their identity.

Which is it?

The OP reminded me of a recent conversation with my toddler. He was ever so cross when I wouldn’t let him eat biscuits for breakfast. Apparently I wasn’t being kind to him. I was told I was similarly unkind when I brushed his teeth/asked him to wear a coat/ turned the tv off/ stopped him smearing jam on the wall. We had a conversation about how being kind is important, but sometimes there are other things that are, in the long term, more important than being kind like my lovely wallpaper having clean teeth and a balanced diet. DS understood my point. He’s 3. If only the same logic worked on TRAs...

Transgender people are not eroding our rights as women.

Tell that to the women cyclists and other athletes that are seeing their trophies go to Transwomen with great big muscle and bone structure.

And the Trans people in my life, with whom I work and play very happily, appreciating and supporting them in terms of the genuine abuse they come in for in the streets etc and discrimination in the workplace etc, all agree with me about prisons and sports.

Trans is not a Uni-mind status.

put me down as someone who think the rights should be afforded to all women. Simple.

Which women are excluded from women's rights?

And what ones do you think should be withdrawn? Burgundy1844

Come one it's not hard. Just give me three, actually I'll make it easier, just give me two ... okay just give me one, single, solitary right that you think should be withdrawn from women.

put me down as someone who think the rights should be afforded to all women. Simple.

Fantastic, so glad you think it's simple, a lot of people seem to make all this unnecessarily complicated. So those rights would include, for example, the right to create same-sex spaces and the right to choose same-sex healthcare practitioners - you agree then that women have the right to build female-only spaces and choose female healthcare practioners and you also believe male "women" have an equal right to same-sex male-only spaces?

Or - there could be a third way. Involving kindness and inclusiveness on both sides to recognise there are aspects of being a transwoman that no female human can fully understand, and aspects of being a female human that no transwoman can fully understand.

And ensuring all the needs of both groups are met, by continuing to provide some female only spaces, resources, protections alongside additional mixed sex women's provisions. What a lovely, inclusive and tolerant world that would be.

@Burgundy1844

I’d stay out of the feminism chat threads if I were you OP. They’re just a refuge for bigots. History will judge them.

Perhaps it will, Burgundy. But not for the reasons you're implying.

Women's rights aren't bigotry.

notreallybotheredaboutausernam

As if anyone would have life altering surgery just to annoy women

Yes if you haven't bothered to understand the concept of self-ID, the whole thing might seem a bit strange it's true. Maybe you should read up on it?

".... with men who tell JKR to 'suck my c*ck' are assured of a place in the historical heavens..."

I can see the history book of the future:

...brave and stunning men became known as the "suck my cock martyrs" and were honoured by the people for all of the literal violence they had.. (cont. pg 94)

[quote Burgundy1844]@DickKerrLadies put me down as someone who think the rights should be afforded to all women. Simple.[/quote]
So Burgundy1844 now we are getting somewhere.

Do you believe that if a sex balanced board is made up of 50% men and 50% transwomen that this is cool and women and their needs have been adequately represented in the decisions made by that board? This has been said to be ok by at least one politician.

And what if those transwomen are late transitioners and have experience the male privilege in education and then in the workplace (including never having to take time off for pregnancy or maternity leave)? Would it be fair that they were chosen ahead of any females (and here I include transmen, by the way)?

Thanks OP it’s nice to see someone calling out transphobia on Mumsnet

[quote Burgundy1844]@DickKerrLadies put me down as someone who think the rights should be afforded to all women. Simple.[/quote]
As PurpleCrowbar asks, which women do you think are being excluded then?

Amazing, isn't it.

"Trans-people aren't eroding any rights".

"Sex and gender are different, you ignoramus."

"We identify as a different gender, but of course we want all the rights based on sex, dur".

"And no trans people do not erode women's rights, but we do want certain of those rights withdrawn".

Honestly, it's like hunt the brain cell.

@SailingAwayIntoSunrise

Trans women are not women. They are trans women.

I think it's very simple. But maybe not 🤷

Instead of beating down women to believe that someone born XY is female, how about we build up trans women to be proud of who they are and what they've achieved.

At the moment they don't seem proud to be trans, they want to pretend they're not.

This, for me, is exactly it. Women are women, trans women are trans women. Trans women cannot say they have the same experience as women and women cannot say they have the same experience as trans women. Why is it a problem to have that 'trans' category permanently. Why, after transitioning, is it necessary for trans women to be known as women? It does create the impression it's something they want to hide. But if you hide something, surely you keep the stigma, and therefore, prejudices, alive.

You mean the rights that some women have at law but seemingly not all women.

Well it is true that the law didn’t protect all those vulnerable young women being abused by the gangs in England. Those young people who were abused because of their female sex, were certainly let down by those in law, who were supposed to protect them.

Or maybe you mean those women who are repeatedly let down by the police, when they report that they are being stalked/harassed by their ex partners/husbands? Including the women amongst the 2-3 females a week, murdered by those of the male sex. Do you mean those women?

You’re right. A lot of women do seem to be prevented to accessing those rights. Those in law, that ignore women’s rights, must do better.