Pro-woman is just a euphemism for transphobic

[Littlemeadow123]

Exactly that.

Transgender people are not eroding our rights as women. Although, the people making such spiteful and ignorant comments and talking about trying to stop them getting recognized as women are eroding their rights to be accepted, respected equal. Do you all honestly think that by speaking out AGAINST transgender people, you are going to be declared as heroes?

And what happened to be kind?

That's the type of goady shit that will absolutely get me angry.

looks for the sweary corner

let tranwomen into female spaces if that's where they feel most comfortable, and if you don't, then try on your clothes elsewhere

This 'third space' option is what many of us here have been asking for for quite a long time.

Do tell us what else we believe and don’t believe...

How can you believe it though? Quite literally, how? You know, as well as I do (and as well as a TW knows) that they are a male. No amount of removing body parts, or adding silicone body parts, is going to change that. No dresses or lipsticks or handbags will change that. On what basis do you genuinely in your heart of hearts believe that this person (this male person) is a woman? Is it not just that you are "being kind" (whatever that means) to this male person? Colluding in their delusion, pretending you don't see it?

[quote Elsiebear90]@Winesalot thank you for the clarification, I was probably a touch defensive as any time I have posted on here with a slightly different view than the majority I get ridiculed and bullied off the thread. I personally think there are some huge issues with self ID, and I don’t believe trans women are “real women”, however, I agree with another poster that there does appear to me to be some very harsh views against trans people as a whole that I can’t subscribe to and that makes me feel unwelcome on this board as trans rights is an extremely dominant topic on here.[/quote]
No worries Elsiebear. I remember that you hold those views which is why I was mentioning that you are here. There is no excuse for people to be ridiculed for a calmly discussed view. I also know that sometimes we can all get heated as it does feel like much of the time you have to look over your shoulder to see if you appear on a twitter feed or if a poster is here simply to scold. And this thread was started to purely do that.

I realise the posting pattern is meant to incite, but I'm also aware of the old adage "talk to the lurkers".

I'd be interested to know what they're making of this thread.

The OP started with the claim that trans rights don't take away from women's rights.

Several people have taken the time to post various examples of precisely the sort of clash of rights she says doesn't ever happen.

OP and her supporters have not responded to any of them. They've told us to be kind.

Several people have posted links to collections of hideously abusive responses to JKR on twitter, and asked whether OP and her supporters have been telling them to be kind.

Crickets.

I suspect this thread is not achieving quite what OP wanted it to achieve.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

If you really believe my DD should get changed elsewhere for swimming or accept being alone with a strange man in a changing room, with a penis, in close proximity to her then you need to talk to a professional.

Nakedness should be normalised in this context?? WTF

This 100%.

People complain nonstop about trans women but I NEVER see any kind of conversation about transmen here and their issues.

What utter tosh, and yet again shows your sexism. That it's all about female spaces, and men wanting to get into them. Because all you are doing is focusing on men's demands re female spaces.

So predictable.

There is thread, after thread on here about people like Keira Bell, and women who detransition, the use of puberty blockers on children, the Tavistock and their insistence on delaying study results. Thread after thread about lesbians, and being encouraged to transition to transmen. Links, stories, narratives and articles about why women transition, and concluding it's the objectification of women in a porn soaked society. Posie Parker campaigns relentlessly about girls who identify as boys. Transgendertrend. Safe schools alliance.

All these are directed largely at females because they are the ones showing up to gender clinics in their droves. 70% of the children and teens at gender clinics are female.

Naturally you wouldn't have noticed any of this. Because your primary concern is about accessing women's spaces and the men who want to do it.

It's such a giveaway.

Lol just scroll on bye neko. No ones forcing you to do anything

FlubberWorm I think if a person has experienced trauma that makes them struggle to be around men then I'd like them to have access to a woman's only space, but I don't personally care for them.

How nice to know that you don't care anything for women that have experienced trauma, presumably you care even less for women who for religious reasons cannot share spaces with males.

For eons this board has promoted the simple, easily implemented and workable solution of having three spaces: Male Sex Only, Female Sex Only and Mixed/Neutral, that would end all the problems, those who do not wish to share spaces with those of the same sex as them and those who don't care either way use the Mixed/Neutral provision but we have been shouted at and accused of transphobia, othering and all manner of other hatred for suggesting such a simple and workable solution, one where everyone gains and no-one looses, now why on earth would that be and why on earth is this solution so awful?

And as for getting naked Well

Good on you OP for speaking out against the MN anti trans nutters.

Good on you OP for speaking out against the MN anti trans nutters.

Could you give a link to the “nutters” please?

I’m kind but I’m also honest. It’s not kind to lie to people. It’s also not kind to steal women’s privacy and dignity. It’s not kind to tell women not to tell the truth about their own bodies. It’s not kind to take our awards, our sports and our language. It’s not kind to issue death threats to women who know what a woman is.

I don’t even ask for kindness from the TRA community - they are not capable of anything beyond narcissism. So I’ll carry on with my truth. Happy to tell you the truth OP.

I suspect this thread is not achieving quite what OP wanted it to achieve.

They never do.

It's a gift 😁

@HappyMealWithLegs

Do tell us what else we believe and don’t believe...

How can you believe it though? Quite literally, how? You know, as well as I do (and as well as a TW knows) that they are a male. No amount of removing body parts, or adding silicone body parts, is going to change that. No dresses or lipsticks or handbags will change that. On what basis do you genuinely in your heart of hearts believe that this person (this male person) is a woman? Is it not just that you are "being kind" (whatever that means) to this male person? Colluding in their delusion, pretending you don't see it?

Exactly. Facts are horrid things.

“what I have noticed is that if you treat people with respect and patience, everyone might learn something.”

Which ought to be something we can all agree on, except neither ‘side’ has really covered itself in glory in this regard have they?

It's such a gift.

Women who are against men telling a beloved children's author to choke on their dick until they die, are the nutters.

It's always such a useful exercise.

And of course, there are very few women on this thread who are actually talking to these people.

@Littlemeadow123 Look at this (trigger warning for these screenshots). This is just some of the abuse that has been directed at transwoman Munroe Bergdorf on Instagram in the last 24 hours. It's absolutely horrendous and vile and upsetting and no wonder Munroe might not feel safe.

But look at who it is coming from. Is it coming from the likes of JK Rowling, or the women of Mumsnet? No, it's not is it. Its coming from men. It's coming from 'Rick' and 'Jake' and fucking 'Mad Max'.

So why do you fucking fuck the fuck right off out of here and take it up with these men who are the ones hurling abuse and making life hard for transwomen. And leave women who are here on this forum discussing how we can protect our sex based rights alone.

And don't try and tell me either that it's our discussions on here which contribute to shit like this. As if these men give a fuck or would take any heed of what we say, they come up with this fuckwittery all by themselves.

It's not the fault of women that men apparently can't control themselves, so why do we have to clean up the mess, why do we have to give up our sex based rights because men just can't help but abuse and harm transwomen.

So go and take it up with these men. Go and lecture them about their transphobia and racism and abuse and leave us the fuck alone. I know you don't get to abuse women that way but that's just tough shit I'm afraid. So sick of this utter SHITE.

@NekoShiro

it's just random people throwing their random opinions out into the void

But thats all chat platforms on the Internet isn't it?

and I've been trying to talk to people about what the issue is with trans people but I just get people frothing at the mouth about how their impeding our rights, when I say rights I mean human rights.

I am able to and happy to chat with zero frothing if you would like to?

Not male or female rights, the rights to live on this earth as a human being with dignity and respect

All humans have human rights but some rights need to be sex specific for reasons such as medical care or employment.

not to get treated like they are litterally eroding womans rights and that they are a parasite in the cultural movements.

But if that is literally what is happening are we not allowed to voice concerns?
We have in UK law protections that are based only on the female sex. Once males have those same protections that do not benefit the male sex does that not then erode our female sex based rights?

It’s interesting how the posters who’ve popped by to tell us how awful we are only ever focus on the toilet/changing room thing but never engage on the

Is it ok for Male bodied people to compete in women’s sports

Is it ok for Male bodied ppl to take up space on programmes designed Specifically to encourage more female representation

Is it ok as baroness brinton said in a meeting about female representation that a parliament that was 50% men & 50% TW would be fine & representative of women

Is it ok that the word women is erased for campaigns around periods, cervical cancer & pregnancy when the word men remains unaltered in campaigns around testicular & prostate cancer?

bunpot

Nice bit of mental health shaming, #be kind
Your mask slipped so far it's near your ankles.

So go and take it up with these men.

Most of them are these men.

I agree with you OP. Mumsnet is very transphobic. I've had a lot of intelligent discussions on other feminist boards that are no where near the extreme views found on here. As you can see they aren't even capable of having a conversation with you because you don't agree to their transphobic views. But I applaud your bravery for trying, it's a lost cause sadly. But like i said, I agree.

I've had a lot of intelligent discussions on other feminist boards that are no where near the extreme views found on here.

Extreme my arse. Look at the screenshots I just posted and tell me what is discussed on MN is 'extreme'.

@GreytExpectations

I agree with you OP. Mumsnet is very transphobic. I've had a lot of intelligent discussions on other feminist boards that are no where near the extreme views found on here. As you can see they aren't even capable of having a conversation with you because you don't agree to their transphobic views. But I applaud your bravery for trying, it's a lost cause sadly. But like i said, I agree.

Any evidence of said transphobia?