Pro-woman is just a euphemism for transphobic

[Littlemeadow123]

Exactly that.

Transgender people are not eroding our rights as women. Although, the people making such spiteful and ignorant comments and talking about trying to stop them getting recognized as women are eroding their rights to be accepted, respected equal. Do you all honestly think that by speaking out AGAINST transgender people, you are going to be declared as heroes?

And what happened to be kind?

Sojo there are lots of questions we've asked and most have been ignored. Maybe you could start by answering those? Or perhaps Elsie you could?

You see as far as I'm concerned until those concerns are genuinely addressed I will continue to ask.

(I've another one ... if it's ok for a TW to use our safe spaces, why not open them up to all the men who identify as men who claim it to be predators?)
Somethings are more important than the hurt feelings of men who apparently think they're a woman.

Apologies if we're boring you. The alternative is just stay off the thread.

have different opinion to you and don’t want to participate in your circle jerk I’m basically told I’m not welcome on the board.

Thats not what Winesalot said at all!

They said And yet here you are, despite having had the opportunity to just scroll on buy. How very interesting.

Why are you lying @Elsiebear90 ?

I missed be kind as I don't really bother with Facebook or Twitter. I have heard of it though. I'm not going to be kind to everyone all the time under all circs because I'm not a doormat or stupid. There are a million times being kind would be a terrible idea.

In fact many women their daughters that they don't have to be kind always e.g. if a man approaches them and says he's lost and will she walk him to the place he needs to go. Socialising girls out of being kind/ polite to everyone all the time is so important.

If anyone needs to be told to be kind it's men. Was this trite thing aimed at them at all? Were men circulating it?

It's not kind to tell girls they have to take their clothes off in front of a male at swim club. That is in no way kind.

• not to be

Well, JK Rowling and Daniel Radcliffe's unwanted apology on her behalf did make the BBC, Guardian, Independent, Telegraph and Times, so I'd say quite a lot of people probably know about it, and 5 pretty mainstream news outlets thought their readership would be sufficiently interested to read articles about it.

Anyway, I really want the people supporting the OP to stick around and engage.

I proposed the thesis that the OHCHR's guidance on prisons, which enshrined the right of women prisoners to single sex accommodation, was in direct conflict with the rights of a convicted rapist with penis who identified as a woman to be housed according to gender.

As OP sees the world, I am wrong and there is no conflict of rights here. By housing the rapist according to his self-professed gender no rights are being taken away from women.

Please, please, OP's supporters, stick around and have a stab at explaining to me why I'm wrong. Several of you have mentioned that GC feminists ought to educate themselves. Here's your chance to help out. Be kind and help a sister out!

Circle jerk?

Isn't that a mainly USA phrase referring to group male masturbation?

What bizarre language to use to a bunch of women on a UK website.

Also we were asked if we had the bollocks to do something or other, earlier.

Language use is really interesting.

I'm not reading the whole thread as I'm not in the mood to be reminded how awful people can be, I agree with you OP, whenever I try to understand the women that frequent this boards views it mostly boils down to, all men are perverts who want to look at young girls in their underwear,and it's all a ruse to invade wens spaces so they can leer at us and make us feel uncomfortable, or it's saying 'why is a man's comfort more important than a woman's?' why is anyone's comfort more important? It's not. I just hear stories about well what is there's a vunerable women who doesn't feel comfortable with aa male body near her, what about the male bodies that feel such an intense dissociation that they self harm themselves and get into abusive situations but forget them because a women, I've made up for the sake of this argument, might be uncomfortable. Being uncomfortable is a part of life, I've been abused and beaten, used to flinch at any males who were around me, even my current partner couldn't hug me without me flinching but I wouldn't deny a trans woman her right to be in the female only space I asked for at uni, or if a trans woman wanted to get changed in the same changing room as me.

I also find it weird how transmen arnt welcomed with loving open arms here, seeing as their actually women according to a lot of people on this board, what are feminists doing to help transmen?

People complain nonstop about trans women but I NEVER see any kind of conversation about transmen here and their issues. Makes me think that maybe they just don't feel comfortable about trans people as a whole, you know, almost transphobic.

[quote Sojo88]@Winesalot

I can't speak specifically for the OP, but I think where they're coming from is that there's a lot of hatred towards people who want to be women, despite being born male. Some people feel suicidal over having been born in the wrong body, and if they read some of these threads I think it would greatly upset them. No, someone male-born will never truly be 100% female, but if that's what they want I would refer to them how they want, I would call them a woman and I wouldn't try telling them they're not what they wish to be identified as. I guess this whole "transwomen aren't women" thing just seems a very harsh thing to say, and unnecessary. However, I appreciate that it makes things a bit more complicated when it comes to toilets and changing rooms etc. Sorry, not expressed that very well but hope it makes sense.[/quote]
I think though that you have thoughts that are probably not far removed from quite a few who post here. No one wants anyone to commit suicide, however, this statistic is weaponised and is actually not correct if you read up on it. It was also recently said by experts (without an agenda) that the suicide rate is as high after transition and it might actually be driven by a) lack of mental health support to understand potential comorbities and b) that it was NOT the fix that they thought it was. But this is not discussed widely. Why? Good question.

I think that you are on a feminist board and we are strongly discussing women's rights. That is Female's rights. Rights that cover pregnancy, menstruation, discrimination and overcoming socialisation just to name a few. But these rights ARE being diluted and harmed by the acceptance of males into the term women. however, to express any whiff of questioning this has been labelled transphobic and has been shut down. So, yes, there is plenty of anger sometimes when people come and tell us off and claim to be bullied.

I hope that if you have genuine questions, that you feel free to ask. Or just read some threads such as 'break it down' to understand the breadth of this topic.

I'm not reading the whole thread as I'm not in the mood to be reminded how awful people can be,

I'm not reading the whole thread as I'm not in the mood to be reminded how awful people can be, I might actually find I've been lied to and am making up strawman arguments.

Fixed that for you.

but I wouldn't deny a trans woman her right to be in the female only space I asked for at uni, or if a trans woman wanted to get changed in the same changing room as me.

Its not a TW right to be in female only spaces because they are MALE.
Its a females right which the second you let males in you are removing those females rights.

People complain nonstop about trans women but I NEVER see any kind of conversation about transmen here and their issues.

Then you haven't been looking very hard, but since you just admitted you don't even read the comments, quelle surprise.

@LastRoloIsMine and what do you think was implied by that comment then?

“I hope that if you have genuine questions, that you feel free to ask. Or just read some threads such as 'break it down' to understand the breadth of this topic”

If you have genuine questions then I’d recommend you explore the wealth of balanced and well informed sources out there rather than the toxic discourse on these threads.

People complain nonstop about trans women but I NEVER see any kind of conversation about transmen here and their issues

I do so hope you've also made this point widely and repeatedly on Twitter, and corrected Daniel Radcliffe's thinking for him. After all, surely if one were to take issue with JKR's tweet about menstruating people, the group who should be offended would be transmen. And yet Daniel's very lengthy (some might say tediously and excessively so) apology on behalf of someone else only mentioned that "transwomen are women".

There’s more issues in feminism than trans rights yet this whole board is completely dominated by it.

Perhaps you should let the OP know that (kindly of course) given that they started this one.

@ShinyFootball

Circle jerk?

Isn't that a mainly USA phrase referring to group male masturbation?

What bizarre language to use to a bunch of women on a UK website.

Bunbury might have something to say about that too,

No one believes twaw, not really, not deep down, not even transwomen themselves.

and what do you think was implied by that comment then?

Why are you reading and posting on a thread you feel is done to death and you don't agree with.

At no point did Winesalot tell you to get off the thread or tell you not to post. They questioned why you bothered posting.

@Winesalot

Thanks :)

To be honest the reason I haven't answered a lot of pp's questions is I do find this quite a hard topic to completely get my head round, and I can't explain my thoughts very well on here. I just often see a lot of seemingly very harsh comments towards transwomen on MN - and it makes me wonder why everyone has such harsh views. I appreciate there are issues and some feel it imposes on their rights as women, but I personally don't feel like this.

@LastRoloIsMine this thread was created with the purposes of offering an alternative view point that is not “done to death” therefore I posted in it.

[quote Elsiebear90]@LastRoloIsMine and what do you think was implied by that comment then?[/quote]
I am sorry Elsiebear90 if I have made you feel you are not welcome here. I meant just the opposite. I DO notice that you are here regularly and express yourself, just as I do. I was pointing out why I thought maybe there was more chatter about this issue in the past month.

Everyone who engages and actually stops for a discussion is welcome here. I genuinely mean that we should all have our say here as long as it is a genuine dialogue and not just an excuse to scold women and their discussion. Hence I suggested also that you might like to start other threads.

Again, my apologies that my poor choice of words did not communicate my intent and made you feel unwelcome.

Neko a TM is welcome in female spaces because they share our biology. They aren't trying to take away our places in sport or on shortlists. They aren't having their violent (often sexual) crimes recorded as women's in crime figures. They aren't going into women's prisons and sexually assaulting other prisoners.

Oh and a TW actually has no right to be in a sex segregated space intended for females.

Can anyone tell me why a TW should be allowed in but say, my lovely mate Bob (a man who identifies as a man) can't? I'm pretty sure he's not going to hurt anyone and he's a very gentle soul but he may feel more comfortable trying on clothes in the ladies changing rooms.

@LastRoloIsMinethis thread was created with the purposes of offering an alternative view point that is not “done to death” therefore I posted in it.

No it was created to tell off those mean feminists which I can tell you is done on a very regular basis and is very much so "done to death".

Yeah I haven't read a lot of the comments in the feminism board, I don't have the free leisure time to endlessly scroll through utter garbage, it's just random people throwing their random opinions out into the void, and I've been trying to talk to people about what the issue is with trans people but I just get people frothing at the mouth about how their impeding our rights, when I say rights I mean human rights. Not male or female rights, the rights to live on this earth as a human being with dignity and respect, not to get treated like they are litterally eroding womans rights and that they are a parasite in the cultural movements.

I would love for my eyes to be opened from all the lies I've been told but none of you are doing it, none of you can actually give me anything concrete other than you're scared and confused.