Gina Martin not happy women don’t want trans women in their sex segregated spaces

[happydappy2]

Gina Martin, who successfully campaigned to make upskirting a crime, has tweeted hat she is not happy that women referenced that particular law in regards M&S changing rooms becoming mixed sex. I suspect she has very woke friends leaning on her to speak out but even so, womens rights are not hers to give away. I wonder what she really thinks about denying teenage girls the right to single sex changing facilities.

But it's not that she just doesn't understand the effect of letting men who identify as women into female spaces, she doesn't seem to understand that a transwoman is simply a man who says he's a woman. In fact, she's telling people who point this out to her that they're wrong.

But she can't and doesn't articulate why they are wrong beyond chanting that TWAW. None of them do.

I bit full of herself then? Everyone else is wrong, I’m not listening.

Well, I'm fairly sure most of the men she knows personally wouldn't stick a camera up her skirt, but lo, a law exists because there are men that do...

YY, Floral. I think she's quite self centred.

Every now and then there is a sad story in the news about a zookeeper who had a "special" relationship with tigers or other powerful animal and broke the rules to be up close with them.

Believing that a predator is soft and cuddly and just wants to play doesn't make that predator any less deadly.

@BaronessFloralBunting

Well, I'm fairly sure most of the men she knows personally wouldn't stick a camera up her skirt, but lo, a law exists because there are men that do...

Funny that.

Never been in hospital mixed sexy changing area?

If one were a nasty, cynical, sarcastic sort one might point out that autocorrect was most likely created by men to explain why it would change "mixed sex changing area" to "mixed sexy", and then ponder what that means in terms of both the desire to make those spaces mixed sex and the wisdom of allowing that to happen.

Sigh. I guess. My autocorrect is bonkers.

Mine once tried to change a person's name (non Anglo name) to Yucky!

How many of us started off thinking much the same as Gina Martin? I know I did.
I'm just thankful I was able to reflect in private and change my opinion without losing face.

I suppose facts are facts, and you go by your own experiences - or by what people tell you (if you are silly enough to take people at their word).

I used to go to gay clubs when I was a teenager (80s) and there was definitely a ‘type’ of transvestite (transsexuals tended to be older and not on that clubbing scene) who would act rather aggressively (like a nasty drag act) and put on a persona of a complete catty cowbag (sometimes ending up in rather unladylike fights). They were never in the ladies loo though - they didn’t demand access.

So I would never assume that all trans people are x, y or z. I’ve met a few dodgy and creepy men - I wouldn’t assume they wouldnt try to use rules to their town advantage to gain access to women’s spaces. But I’m not a mind reader so can’t tell which are the ‘bad’ ones can I?

How naive she is.

I used to go to a club that wasn't exclusively gay but that had a lot of gay clientele and there were always men in the women's loos, but the thing is, a. we assumed they were gay, b. though a bit catty they were never physically aggressive towards the women, and c. a club is not society in miniature, it's its own odd little bubble and many of the things that happen there can't and shouldn't be replicated on a larger scale (and also a bit of d, young people can be very naive and young women in particular often tolerate things they wouldn't if they were older). So if Gina is basing her stance on experiences like that then she's being a bit slow of thinking. She wouldn't be the only woman doing that though, there seem to be quite a lot going "well I used to share loos something with Dave who was gay and who I'd chat with about boyfriend woes so what's the big deal?"

And if you complained to management about Dave in the ladies, any sensible place would kick gay Dave man out.

Unless you are in a Glasgow nightclub where you would be shoved out the fire escape in winter without your coat and publicly attacked on social media.

Like that argument terry.

Many people have asked Gina to define transwomen/difference between a transwoman and a man especially with no physical changes etc. No response. I think that like Lisa Nandy she has simply never thought about it. Like many she has chosen the side that is presented as the approved liberal position without really understanding the details and hence has no response when difficult situations are presented.

Does Gina Martin also identify as a Labour supporter I wonder? I'm quite sick of people who claim to be socialists but then clearly have zero understanding of class analysis.

and c. a club is not society in miniature, it's its own odd little bubble and many of the things that happen there can't and shouldn't be replicated on a larger scale (and also a bit of d, young people can be very naive and young women in particular often tolerate things they wouldn't if they were older).

Excellent points there Kittens

I had very similar experiences when I was younger - in my teenage goth days our most frequented club often had blokes in the ladies loo and it was just accepted.

From (very hazy memory) though, it was mostly the gay guys who'd be in there and if a girl was trying to escape unwanted attention etc and the guy tried to come in after her he'd be given very short shrift.
It didn't really occur to me that there could be blokes in there with ulterior motives.

When I was a bit older I used to regularly use the men's loos in one of our favourite clubs because the women's didn't have nearly enough cubicles...it was fucking grim hygiene-wise and you'd be lucky if either of the two cubicles had doors on them that week. The only reaction I remember was one of amused surprise - possibly because no one else was stupid enough to brave the cubicles

I look back on what we did with a mix of shock and awe - I'd be if we were to base our societal norms on what went on there!

I mean, if we wanted hoovering up large quantities of cocaine and methamphetamines to be a social norm then sure! Otherwise probably not the best how to guide.

Agreed!

So it looks like to follow Gina’s argument because my lovely husband and Male friends would never sexually assault anyone it’s not a issue globally

The thing about clubs as well I think, is they are predominantly the place of the young. And young people can be selfish (all generations, not just this one). So young women are ok with gay men in the loos because they want their gay friends in there, they’re ok with young men in there doing drugs with them because they accept their male friends in there and some will want to have sex in there so they are ok with others doing it.

As you get older and have had more experience of men you might generally feel a bit different.

Very true Delirium, it's also the nature of being young that you can't conceive that you might feel differently from the way you do at that moment.

Now that I'm a menopausal saggy-titted harridan I look back at my younger self and what I believed and did and I just don't know what the fuck I was thinking...youth and hormones are a heady brew for sure...

Young people in general are bigger risk-takers. For all kinds of reasons, they are more likely to do a lot of stuff that is dangerous or even just behaviourally dodgy. Hormonal brain fog is a significant factor IMO.
Awful as it sounds there are practical reasons older people have traditionally been the ones to guide society, while younger ones go off to war.