Gina Martin not happy women don’t want trans women in their sex segregated spaces

[happydappy2]

Gina Martin, who successfully campaigned to make upskirting a crime, has tweeted hat she is not happy that women referenced that particular law in regards M&S changing rooms becoming mixed sex. I suspect she has very woke friends leaning on her to speak out but even so, womens rights are not hers to give away. I wonder what she really thinks about denying teenage girls the right to single sex changing facilities.

Men = 98% of sexual predators and women/girls 90% of victims. Plus lots of sexual assaults committed by men never reported. Men are the problem - irrespective of how they identify.

Any assault by a woman is to be condemned, but this is not that norm. It is a highly predictable trope (always the lesbians) as an excuse for men to come into women’s spaces.

Most men are decent and would never dream of entering single sex spaces and they are framed as the ‘male’ threat.

Yet the men who actively demand access to single sex spaces are not a ‘male’ threat and it’s transphobic not to want our DDs in state of undress next to them.

A guy who cross dresses because it gives him a boner and a trans women are two very different things, one of which is more complex than the other.

And of course they very helpfully will alert women as to which they are before they enter female only spaces.

Separate male and female changing rooms exist because of the societal concept that men somehow wouldn't be able to behave themselves appropriately around women and/or vice versa in a shared space, which is a bit infantilising.

I can't believe anyone would type that with a straight face or good intentions.

If the majority of the trans people are doing no harm, then in the same way, they should be allowed into those spaces, because that's acceptance and tolerance.

No, female only changing rooms for females ONLY, use your tolerance and acceptance for those who do not want to, will not or cannot use female changing facilities if male born people are using them as well and come up with another solution.

@Al1Langdownthecleghole

Girls and women, don't speak up about feeling uncomfortable.

Indeed we just leave spaces and never go back.

Do you think if this happened (we just left public life as much as possible and found ways around using mixed sex spaces) they would be happy? Or would they then require something else of ours.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

A guy who cross dresses because it gives him a boner and a trans women are two very different things

How exactly does one tell the difference when in a female space with a male?

Maybe RiverRicochet can see into people's souls (like Layla Moran).

Hmm

1. Lesbians get sexually aroused in changing rooms and sexually assault other women

1. Transition is such a big thing no one would do it with ill intent

1. Sex offences committed by women are very under reported so you can't say they are less of a risk when it comes to sexual predation than men

1. 'bathroom' rules were used too exclude black women it's the same as racism

1. Anyone who takes advantage of this for sexual kicks is somehow different...

In response.

1. It is lesbophobic to assume the sexual behaviour of lesbians is the same as/ similar to heterosexual men

1. No 'transition' is required. A masculine presenting trans woman (beard, suit, short hair' is as 'valid' as a trans person who has had full surgery etc. Non binary is even more woolly. Cross dressers or part time cross dressers also come under the trans umbrella

1. All of the statistics from everywhere in the world, through time, show that men are a massively greater risk when it comes to sex offending. Also extreme or fetishistic sexual behaviour. CSA. etc. Women's lived experience everywhere backs this up. Metoo was anonymous and I didn't see any reports of sexual abuse etc by a woman. There may have been some. But the reports backed up that men are the threat with this.

1. In the UK?

1. That poster forgot 'if anyone misbehaves the victim/s can report it to the authorities'.

I feel like some of the usual arguments haven't been covered, I'm sure we'll get there

@ChangeName49

My sister was raped by a lesbian. She got a lot of counseling, and is doing better.

She doesn't demand lesbian-free spaces because of that one awful lesbian, because she knows that most lesbians aren't like that.

The same can be said for trans people.
Just like any other type of person, most of them aren't sex offenders, so tarring them all with that brush is unfair.

Did this happen in the UK? Under UK law, the crime of rape requires a penis. So did the lesbian assist a man to commit the rape, or did the lesbian herself have a penis? If it was the latter, that wasn't actually a lesbian.

A lot of the posters on this are American or have consumed arguments from the USA.

It's so lazy.

Yes in UK law rape is defined as non consensual penetration with a penis.

The stuff about the experience of black women in the USA is constantly leveraged by trans activists. It's beyond offensive. Now I'm not saying that women in the UK weren't racist. And men. And bad stuff didn't happen and continues to happen. But, the constant comparison of trans women to black women is incredibly offensive. Black women in the USA have for years been compared to men as an insult. For a recent example see Serena Williams. Step back a few decades and see what was written about Fatima Whitbread, a genuinely wonderful, inspirational woman. Who battled incredible odds, and was a running 'joke' due to her appearance (Fatima I love you!!!).

The utter tone deafness of many trans activists is mind boggling.

I've been assaulted on a bus. I don't demand male free busses because of one awful experience. That argument doesn't really take us anywhere.

It is wholly normal, expected and compelled that where people are in a state of undress, there is a separate space provided for males and females to be away from each other. There are reasons for this. Those reasons have not gone away. This is not females clamouring to have males in their changing spaces because female only spaces don't work for them.

This is about trying to force removing all female only spaces from all females with no exceptions tolerated, with zero interest in the impact on those females, the feelings or needs or wishes of those females, the lack of tolerance or empathy for females is loud and clear in the posts above. It is actions by males, for males.

Who benefits from making female only spaces forcibly mixed sex? Males. And only males.

Who were female only spaces intended to serve? Females. 100% of females. When 'inclusion' actually results in the exclusion of a large group of the people the provision was set up for, it's not inclusion.

Does anyone feel the need to visit their aged relative in Bunbury?

Gina's outrage at the unforeseen consequence of the law she worked so hard to get passed, has echoes of our frustration at the consequences of another law's passage. Except of course we weren't involved in the creation of the GRA.

I notice that the woman on that Gina Martin thread asking for consideration for her traumatic rape/sexual assualt is not getting 'I'm so sorry that happened for you'.

Because of course it's more traumatic for transwomen to have a 'hand up the skirt' than for women to be sexually assaulted, which is so rare, anyway, amiright?

If the anecdote about RiverRicochet's sister is true and she means penetrated by an object against her will I don't think it much serves your case to argue that it isn't technically rape in UK law if that is how the sister views it.

I mean to be clear I'm not remotely convinced by RiverRicochet's argument but quibbling that aspect of it seems unnecessary.

Skyping my aged relative in Bunbury just isn't the same since social distancing.

However I live in hope of reasonable answers to reasonable points and questions that move this debate forward and actually demonstrate the equality and inclusion and compassion being banged on about, instead of just boiling down to a simple 'people born with penises matter and people born without penises are support humans who should know their place'.

That doesn't need a relative in Bunbury, that's got more to do with the 5th century on the phone asking if they'll pick up another ducking stool on their way home.

A guy who cross dresses because it gives him a boner and a trans women are two very different things, one of which is more complex than the other.

I'm so fed up of this being said. They are exactly the same thing. Here is Stonewall's exact wording.

TRANS
An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

With the link: www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/faqs-and-glossary/glossary-terms#t

@DidoLamenting

If the anecdote about RiverRicochet's sister is true and she means penetrated by an object against her will I don't think it much serves your case to argue that it isn't technically rape in UK law if that is how the sister views it.

I was just wondering if the "lesbian" who committed this crime was the sort of "lesbian" who has a penis. If so, it just confirms what we've been saying on here about people with penises in women's spaces. I was just looking for clarification.

And are RiverRicochet and ChangeName49 the same person?

A guy who cross dresses because it gives him a boner and a trans women are two very different things, one of which is more complex than the other.

They're the same thing, according to Debbie Hayton (who should know as he's followed this path himself):
...an old joke in the community about transitioners who start out as occasional cross-dressers: “What’s the difference between a transvestite and a transsexual? About five years.”

quillette.com/2020/02/02/i-may-have-gender-dysphoria-but-i-still-prefer-to-base-my-life-on-biology-not-fantasy/

A bloke stuck his hand up my skirt when I was transitioning from being 14 to 15.

The definition in UK law of rape. There was an argument for and against before all this. Which I won't go into here. But, the particular definition in UK law is useful because there has been an increase in women convicted of rape. Note, women in rare circumstances are tried for this if they facilitate/ arrange/ get involved. Accessory to rape. This is so unusual it hits the papers, as do most sex crimes committed by women. Because, it's unusual and shocking.

With all the forces who responded to the FOA saying they recorded crimes against self ID gender rather than sex, it is the only Barometer we have around whether male crimes are potentially recorded as female.

So yes. It does matter if it's propagated that women (old definition) can commit rape under UK law. Because they absolutely can't.

The crime of assault by penetration carries the same sentencing guidelines as rape.

A guy who cross dresses because it gives him a boner and a trans women are two very different things, one of which is more complex than the other.

It is offensive and gaslighting for someone to decide that if a fact isn't convenient to their case it needs to be airbrushed out of existence. Either this is being asserted without having checked on its veracity or the assertion was made in the knowlege that it was untrue.

The Internet is absolutely full of this kind of stuff:

www.reddit.com/r/honesttransgender/comments/eqeljb/gender_euphoria_being_used_as_euphemism_for_being/

Fetishists aren't brave by entering the spaces of women. That's part of the fetish. And those with a fetish about women don't announce it because the unwitting involvement of women is part of it.

I do wish that more women could recognise the glee with which some men greet the discomfort of women. And the twitch of the chub with which that glee is accompanied.

Oh, we see it, Aye. We see it.

For a significant number of misogynist men the goal they hope to achieve by supporting transgenderism is to drive women and girls out of the public sphere.

By the way some papers, on the release of last years stats I think it was, ran headlines and articles about the massive increase in females committing sex offences.

The numbers are so low though for women that even a couple of self ID women will skew significantly.

The articles of course hand wrung about what's happening to women to make them do this. One had a tiny note at the end to say the male figured were massively higher. But of course that's not news.

My opinion of her has certainly changed (she even uses the C** word now).

I suspect she didn’t fight for ‘women and girls’ before just herself.

If the anecdote about RiverRicochet's sister is true
It's quite clever if it isn't true. None of us could call that poster out on it, it would go against #webelieveher #yesallwomen and #metoo

I guess if we see a swathe of "unprosecuted lesbian rapists" across Twitter etc we will know why.

And then the meninists will jump on it. Return of Kings will be discussing the scourge of predatory lesbians.