Hungary votes to end legal recognition of transgender people

[Lamahaha]

nationalfile.com/hungary-votes-134-56-to-end-legal-recognition-of-trans-people/?fbclid=IwAR2XMJp7yzVMt9sh4QDOX69znivEA43eJhcSDVlm-zsMaikbANtXxnhd_uo

The amendment would recognize “sex at birth,” making it impossible to change ones gender throughout the course of their life.

On the proposed draft law, Human Rights Watch wrote:

The proposed amendment to the Registry Act would include a clarification regarding the word “nem,” which in Hungarian can mean both “sex” and “gender,” to specifically refer to the sex at birth (“szuletesi nem”) as “biological sex based on primary sex characteristics and chromosomes.” According to the draft bill, the birth sex, once recorded, cannot be amended.

It's the correct vote, but this government is otherwise authoritarian, neo-fascist, against minorities, pretty awful.

Apparently the TRA's are already planning a legal challenge in the European Court of Human Rights on the basis that the new law violates European human rights case law...

Perhaps robin can answer it.

There are multiple threads where RobinMoiraWhite has been asked questions and Robin has just....left.

Which is interesting because you’d think if anyone could put together some legal descriptions of trans, why legal documents of facts should be changed, and why laws should reflect this it would be a transwoman who is legally qualified but it seems Robin often just wanders away from such questions.

Must be busy and hard work preparing appeals for lost cases against The Times etc, mustn’t have time to bother with such silly little arguments about stuff here.

It’s embarrassingly obvious

Even ive noticed it, so its obviously...obvious

Oh, Robin is that poster. The one with opinions about a certain group of people. Quite a lot of us saw the post they went on to delete. I'm sure if I repeated it my post would get deleted though.

There are multiple threads where RobinMoiraWhite has been asked questions and Robin has just....left.

Yeah, I know. I was only joshing. 😁

I was talking about your comments about rolling back gay rights. That thankfully hasnt happend yet in places where they are currently allowed to marry etc I do not want to see the right to live peacefully and safely be removed nor the right to marry or not be fired

I agree it thankfully hasn't happened yet, but you're still seemingly wilfully missing the point that if some minorities rights get rolled back (OK, one you may agree with should be rolled back) what's to say they're not coming for other rights next?

So - a trans woman has come onto the thread from what I can gather?
With a legit opinion.
Maybe not one you can all agree with, but hey.
Still entitled to comment.
What the fuck is with all the laughing and trying to discredit?
I mean - just whut.

Lemonade I find it a wee bit offensive to trans people that your main interest in this particular issue, which is specific to trans people, is to speculate on how it might affect other groups. Why not focus on the issue in hand rather than conflating the interests of separate groups?

Do you not think that hospital and drs records should be biologically accurate ? Given the fact that it has already resulted in a near fatal incident and a still born baby where gender has been the baseline and not sex. And what about police records? If god forbid someone went missing or was in trouble, what's more important? That they are found safe and well and hopefully returned to their loved ones. Or that the reports and descriptions are affirmative as opposed to accurate?

Suspect actual debate is beyond Robin. Used to having a judge to hide behind. They won’t let anyone tell the truth in court, so it must be very hard to chat on mumsnet where sex is allowed to exist as an actual reality, instead of in rarefied atmospheres where gender is de rigeur.

I find it a wee bit offensive to trans people that your main interest in this particular issue, which is specific to trans people, is to speculate on how it might affect other group

I'm not speculating on how it affects other groups. That's not my point!
It's how if we're stripping back trans rights, what's next?
It's all a bit too far right for me.
In clear English
Trans rights being stripped back like this - not good.
Gay rights if they were to be stripped back - not good.
It's the same line of thinking!
Maybe some are OK with that, but I'm not.

I agree it thankfully hasn't happened yet, but you're still seemingly wilfully missing the point that if some minorities rights get rolled back (OK, one you may agree with should be rolled back) what's to say they're not coming for other rights next?

What rights do other groups currently have which are comparable to the right of trans people to falsify their birth record and be legally recognised as something they are not (the opposite sex)?

Women's rights are being stripped back-not good.

I don't consider it a "right" to falsify your birth certificate. I think it's good to resolve that error of judgement. If they go on to discriminate further then that is obviously wrong.

Trans rights being stripped back like this - not good.

What's your opinion about men who are sexually aroused by the thought of themselves as women having the right to legally declare themselves women? If they are stripped of this 'right' do you think that is 'not good'?

With a legit opinion. Maybe not one you can all agree with, but hey. Still entitled to comment

We would love for well-known regular visitor and post Robin to offer a proper opinion, other than talking about badges when no one else is, but we all have experience of Robin dropping into threads, being asked questions to debate, and then never returning. More than happy to hear from Robin but usually you ask Robin a hard question and it never gets answered, which is an odd thing for a barrister to not be able to formulate anything in return.

We are laughing because it’s all so tiresome and predictable.

Allowing a majority to strip away the rights of a minority is appalling, and I'm disappointed to see it supported here. The end does not justify the means.

Stop conflating gay rights with trans "rights", please. Two completely separate things.

Allowing a majority to strip away the rights of a minority is appalling

What's your opinion on a minority stripping rights from a majority? Is that OK?

Hi @OldCrone,

What's your opinion on a minority stripping rights from a majority? Is that OK?

No

If rights are being eroded for some, it's not a huge leap of the imagination to think that others could be too

Are you ok with the stripping away all female rights to appease a few males? Female rights that actually protect trans men too?
Why would a male need female rights?

I think if people transition medically then they have the right to become legally that gender. But this self identification and gender fluid stuff is completely illogical IMHO. unless somebody is born with a medical condition and are inter-sex then they are what they are.

So you'll understand why women have a problem with men being able to declare themselves women WeaselKnickers.

We would love for well-known regular visitor and post Robin to offer a proper opinion, other than talking about badges when no one else is

That kind of tied on to what I was saying though.
So wasn't entirely irrelevant?
Seeing as I made the point where does rolling back rights stop

then they have the right to become legally that gender

What is the legal definition of gender? It can't be sex because that can't change. If it means masculine or feminine then that's personality and how you choose to present which doesn't need a law.
What about the outcry from the rest of the 98+ genders available. How would you legislate for those?

Allowing a majority to strip away the rights of a minority is appalling, and I'm disappointed to see it supported here. The end does not justify the means

Agree