Hungary votes to end legal recognition of transgender people

[Lamahaha]

nationalfile.com/hungary-votes-134-56-to-end-legal-recognition-of-trans-people/?fbclid=IwAR2XMJp7yzVMt9sh4QDOX69znivEA43eJhcSDVlm-zsMaikbANtXxnhd_uo

The amendment would recognize “sex at birth,” making it impossible to change ones gender throughout the course of their life.

On the proposed draft law, Human Rights Watch wrote:

The proposed amendment to the Registry Act would include a clarification regarding the word “nem,” which in Hungarian can mean both “sex” and “gender,” to specifically refer to the sex at birth (“szuletesi nem”) as “biological sex based on primary sex characteristics and chromosomes.” According to the draft bill, the birth sex, once recorded, cannot be amended.

It's the correct vote, but this government is otherwise authoritarian, neo-fascist, against minorities, pretty awful.


Apparently the TRA's are already planning a legal challenge in the European Court of Human Rights on the basis that the new law violates European human rights case law...

[nauticant]

... and the trans umbrella sits under the LGBTQIAPK + umbrella, and to ask any question shows you're a bigot.

[OldCrone]

It is the entire concept of a trans person that is the problem here.

Define trans. What is a trans person? What are you actually giving legal recognition to?

That's exactly it. It's a fetish. Or it's a delusion. Or it's a belief in an 'essence' - like a religious belief. What else can it be?

[LemonadeAndDaisyChains]

It's the correct vote, but this government is otherwise authoritarian, neo-fascist, against minorities, pretty awful.

I find it a bit scary,
You say yourself "authoritarian, neo-fascist, against minorities and pretty awful but at the same time think it's the correct vote?
I'm not trans, but if they're rolling rights back so that you can't be recognised as trangender or be acknowledged as such and have to be referred to as your old name (think I've got that right) how is that a good thing?
If you have to out yourself as a trans woman even if you pass - say looks female, but has old male name?
Or vice versa with trans men with old female name.
If it's seen as OK to strip away trans rights, where should it stop?
What's to stop L,G, or B being targeted?
A lot of people would want their rights stripped away too (not me I hasten to add)

[LemonadeAndDaisyChains]

Top 2 lines was supposed to be a quote

[OldCrone]

I'm not trans

What's your definition of trans Lemonade? Someone with a fetish? Or a delusion? Or someone who believes in a 'gender essence', like a religious belief? Or something else?

[LemonadeAndDaisyChains]

Fine, just ignore everything else I've just said, and fixate on what my definition of trans is.
Standard behaviour, wouldn't expect anything else lol

[OldCrone]

Without knowing your definition of trans, there's no point in commenting on anything else you've said. I need to know if you're talking about people who have a fetish, people who have a mental illness or people who have a religious belief. Or none of those (in which case, what sort of people are you referring to?)

[LemonadeAndDaisyChains]

Why though?
It's like you're just blocking out what I just said and fixating on something completely irrelevant to the point I made which was
trans women and trans mens rights are being taken away.
What's to stop L, G, or B being targeted next?
Or is that too hard or distressing to think about?

[OldCrone]

trans women and trans mens rights are being taken away.

Without a definition of what a transwoman or transman is this comment is meaningless.

If you mean men with a fetish, then I don't care if their right to flaunt their fetish in public is taken away, because I don't think they should have that right in the first place.

If you mean people who are suffering from a delusion then I think they should have appropriate mental health support, not the 'right' to coerce everyone else to participate in their delusion.

If you mean people who have a religious style belief in a gendered soul, then I think they should have the right to practice their religion, but not to force everyone else to share their religious beliefs.

Which of these groups are you talking about? Or is it another group entirely?

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

It's like you're just blocking out what I just said and fixating on something completely irrelevant ^to the point I made which was
trans women and trans mens rights are being taken away.^

It's not irrelevant. What is "trans"? What are the rights you think are being taken away, and please justify why they are "rights"?

[SarahTancredi]

LG and B rights dont put people at risk in the sense if their medical records are correct.

They dont force people to go along with something that they might not even believe in and puts them in danger going along with

And they do not affect anyone else in any way

Entirely different to so called trans rights which instead of stopping at being able to work/marry/live peacefully go on to demand that everyone else be a part of it whether they consent or not

[WhatOnFuckingEarth]

Isn’t this just purely discriminatory. Genuine trans people are now not allowed to change name and gender. As grown adults, as long as they aren’t affecting anyone, what is the point of chastising them, just because you don’t agree with them.

[OldCrone]

What do you mean by 'genuine trans people' WhatOnFuckingEarth? One of the groups I described in my previous posts? All of them? Or do you have some other definition of what 'genuine trans people' are?

And if men can legally become women, it affects actual women and girls, so it's not a case of 'not affecting anyone', regardless of which trans category they belong to.

[LemonadeAndDaisyChains]

What are the rights you think are being taken away

I'm talking about what has just happened in Hungary, which is what the thread is about?
It all seems a bit "it''s OK to discriminate but only if it's people I approve of you discriminating against".

[LemonadeAndDaisyChains]

Entirely different to so called trans rights which instead of stopping at being able to work/marry/live peacefully go on to demand that everyone else be a part of it whether they consent or not

Wouldn't stop anyone who wanted to roll back trans L, G, and B, would it?
To those, it causes a lot of harm.
Going against family values/traditions or whatever.
Same type of argument.
And why "so called" trans rights in air quotes? Do you think there's no such thing or shouldn't be?

[LemonadeAndDaisyChains]

random trans in there should read Wouldn't stop anyone who wanted to roll back L, G, and B, would it?

[SarahTancredi]

Because the parts that frequently cause the most conflict are rights which no one really should have.

Everyone should have the right to be safe. To live their lives in peace and marry consenting adults they love.

No one has or should have the rights to your eyes though. Or the right to compel your speech
Or the right to be amongst unconsentimg members of the opposite sex at their most vulnerable, or the right to falsify legal documents.

[NonnyMouse1337]

Which other groups have 'the right' to falsify legal documents? If only one group is able to do this, then what they have is a privilege, not a right.

[LemonadeAndDaisyChains]

To live their lives in peace and marry consenting adults they love.

Not everyone would agree with that though.
I do, but sadly a lot wouldn't.
If rights are being eroded for some, it's not a huge leap of the imagination to think that others could be too.
Section 33 doesn't sound a whole lot different to section 28 to me.

[SarahTancredi]

You are talking about something that hasnt happend yet though and thats not what is being discussed.

[LemonadeAndDaisyChains]

You are talking about something that hasnt happend yet though and thats not what is being discussed.

Was that to me or RobinMoira?
As from what I've read, section 33 is real.

inews.co.uk/news/i-wont-even-be-allowed-to-use-my-name-now-that-hungary-has-scrapped-all-rights-for-trans-people-2860793.
Been approved by the Prime Minister?
If they've approved that, what's next?
Could quite be RobinMoiras post.

[popehilarious]

RobinMoira , I think you are responding to someone who is perhaps not posting in the best of faith.

[SarahTancredi]

lemonade

I was talking about your comments about rolling back gay rights. That thankfully hasnt happend yet in places where they are currently allowed to marry etc

I do not want to see the right to live peacefully and safely be removed nor the right to marry or not be fired

But no one else has the right to falsify legal documentation so why is it seen as removing rights when no one else can do that and in fact no one should he able to do that. And as for changing hour sex marker at the drs etc thats just dangerous. As is the police having to tell people to searc for a 6 foot blonde woman named Alice when thats really not who they are after. How do you find a vulnerable person that's gone missing if no one knows who they are looking for