11 year old girl set homework asking her to 'define hardcore pornography'

[stumbledin]

Mum fuming as daughter, 11, set homework asking her to 'define hardcore pornography' headline from the Mirror.

Mrs Taylor said if her daughter had searched these phrases online in order to define them, the results would have "destroyed her mind" and "scarred her for life".

"My daughter is still very much a child, we've still got magic elves, her bedroom is done in My Little Pony. She is very innocent and naive.

"She was only in primary school last year living her best life, now she is being asked to search for hardcore pornography.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-fuming-daughter-11-set-22049850

Hang on hang on. I’m not at ALL suggesting this homework is right for 11 year olds, but the handwringing about “children shouldn’t be told about these things they’re too young”.

I’m sorry. When they walk into a secondary school at the age of 11, they are with children much older between lessons, in PE changing rooms at lesson changeover, at lunch and breaks, and believe me, they will hear all about extreme sex acts, violence against women, sexual abuse, assault and pornography. They’ll hear it from their older peers; insults slung between older kids, awful stuff will be talked about as “banter” “jokes” and totally normalised.
It’s always been that way- at least since I was starting school 20 years ago- it was an awful shock as a q sheltered 11 year old being told “I shagged your mum” or “come here and suck my dick” by a 14 year old delinquent having a sneaky fag by the science block.
And then I internalised and normalised all that shit and spent 4 years letting older boys grope me because it was “banter”.

It is FAR better that they are told in a classroom environment, in terms that are factual and educational, or by a parent, that these things exist and without consent are not normal, are damaging and criminal in many cases.

How on earth can we expect kids to navigate this stuff otherwise? Tell them to block their ears, close their eyes and sing loudly?

Try as I might, I can't think of any good reason not to be critical of the teacher(s) concerned here. OK, this is a tough time for teachers, overstretched, tired, not necessarily easy to consult colleagues for advice, etc etc. But how on earth could anybody, teacher or otherwise, not grasp that asking 11-14yos for definitions of those particular terms was really, really dodgy? How could it not occur to the teacher that a child asked for a definition won't head for a printed dictionary (if they even have such a thing), they'll use Google?

It worries me that teachers may have become so desensitised to this stuff that they have lost touch with what the rest of us, who haven't been trained by the usual suspects, think about it. Either that or they do know but they are so indoctrinated that they believe we're all bigots and they have a mission in life to teach the young what their ignorant, closed-minded parents won't.

Agree I worry what sort of person wants to be a PSHE teacher. It does seem a role suited for those who want to indoctrinate children with their own views. It also seems to occupy a large chunk of the school curriculum. I think this sort of discussion would be fine in school age 14-16 but even then you need a teacher able to control the class and appreciate any discussion on porn usually leads to a discussion on the ways males can degrade and abuse females because that's how most porn is. 11-14 year olds writing about it and searching terms at home is completely age inappropriate and abusive.

It is FAR better that they are told in a classroom environment,

They weren’t. They were left to their own devices to define it themselves as homework with the naive assumption they’d just refer to the “supplied material” and not the internet. It wasn’t about teaching them consent and safeguarding, it was the exact opposite; children aren’t able to consent to the findings of their google search and there is no safeguarding if teachers thought it wouldn’t lead to googling.

I agree with your point TheSheepofWallSt that some / many children will be exposed to these issues on entry to secondary school. The problem is that those questions are age inappropriate. Women on here know (because we've researched and uncovered it) that the sex positive / queer theory advocates in Stonewall and other lobby groups have been writing SRE materials for schools who are unthinkingly using them without any due diligence.
And what is being uncovered is a misogynistic torrent of pro porn, anti safeguarding materials that promote unsafe humiliating sexual practices that are illegal for children, not to mention chipping away at children's boundaries of what is acceptable and safe for them. This is a classic example and likely to be repeated in countless schools elsewhere.
These materials are not being written by educators and those with experience in child development / psychology. They're being written by pro porn / queer theory advocates who have no business dabbling in sex education for children. It's a catastrophic safeguarding fail.

I think that what this actually exposes are these non-professional teaching/educator groups who are collaborating with schools to create these packs/workbooks/teaching materials.

They certainly provide a window into the mindset of those creating the collateral, and what they feel is acceptable with regards to children.

Who is checking the content? Did safeguarding never happen? Makes you wonder what was red-inked at draft stage doesn’t it?

I won't read it either. It's utter shite.

What, are you afraid if you read the Daily Mail you will assume the characteristics of their target demographic? Have a bit more faith in yourself.

What is it with the people who frequently refuse to read stuff cos if where its printed or because its discussed discussed in FWR or whatever.

Safeguarding is everyones business. " it didnt happen as it's only the mirror " is a shitty defense.And frankly most papers these days are so brainwashed and woke that it seems to be down to right wing publications and trash rags to try and inform people these days sadly

Leaving aside the stupidity of not expecting kids to Google terms - what would the course materials say differentiates hard core pornography from soft pornography without being horribly grim?

Precisely. You're going to have to describe hard core porn. Stuff that some adults might not even know about (Warwickshire website anyone??) Might include stuff that is distressing and disgusting to adults whose sexuality hasn't been twisted by porn, let alone kids.

What is the underlying purpose of the distinction question anyway? I fear it is to differentiate between 'bad porn' and 'good porn' i.e. get the message across that some porn is all fine and dandy. If so, that would be the normalisation of porn in action. Children inferring from school lessons that some porn is acceptable. And take that message off into adulthood such that girls certainly will find it harder to question those feelings of upset, anger, humiliation and betrayal that it elicits.

Start the gaslighting early.

For all the fragile flowers who think they might be corrupted if they ever strayed away from the rarefied atmosphere of The Guardian or The Independent you might be interested to read up about the following.

The New Year's Eve attacks a couple of years ago on women in Cologne and other German cities- ignored by the liberal media, reported on by The Mail. When The Guardian finally picked up on it they turned it into an opinion piece blaming the female victims.

The David Challenor trial- ignored by all mainstream media except a local paper and then picked up by The Mirror followed by the other tabloids - ignored by the liberal media. Challenor involved so many safeguarding breaches it's hard to know where to start.

dido

Its certainly a very common argument on the "other side" of all this. No source is ever good enough. And certainly every single thread regarding safeguarding or stuff that we should all care about or be keeping an eye out for that's posted in chat or aibu, posters keep asking for it to be moved over to feminism as if this is some dirty little secret corner and should be hidden away.

We should all care. And be vigilant with our children. Not then a blind eye until the "right" source or "right kind of victim" comes along. Didntwe learn anything from saville

I dont know what's wrong with people.

Yes I used to avoid the Daily Mail for similar 'high minded' reasons, as a Guardian reader all my adult life.

Cologne was the start of my change of mind.

I generally avoid the Guardian now and am grateful for other publications covering what the High Minded Right Thinkers refuse to.

I read a lot of newspapers - I have for ages - mum and dad would buy an armful of papers on a Sunday (not the sport on Sunday!) and we would sit and read them (with a bar of chocolate and mug of tea). A range of politics and styles - it’s a good way to see how reporting is carried out and the biases (not always blatantly obvious). We would discuss stories (god that sounds weird I guess).

You can’t cocoon yourself and only read XYorZ. However - I can’t bring myself to read the Guardian these days. Last time I did - I don’t remember the stories but there were several with screaming omissions of fact that would really have flipped the meaning/emphasis of the reporting. Absolute wokey bias - not reporting but preaching and trying to colour opinion.

Yes , infact reading the same story written by multiple papers is actually quite beneficial . All certainly good practice on the sense of learning to read between the lines and seeing where they are manipulating the truth and pandering fo people.

I'll even occasionally read penis news articles for the comedy value and to see what journalism doesnt look like.

Know your enemy and all that.

This shit is coming to a school near you.

It's those women people are ashamed to agree with and those papers no one wants to admit they have read that have enabled us all to see what going on. Cant speak for anyone else but I'd be kicking myself for paying no attention to an article based on the paper then discovering the hard way there was some truth to it.

With kids you cant afford to be picky or ignorant. Research alternate sources or go look at their work yourself but dont dismiss it completely

What is the underlying purpose of the distinction question anyway? I fear it is to differentiate between 'bad porn' and 'good porn' i.e. get the message across that some porn is all fine and dandy. If so, that would be the normalisation of porn in action. Children inferring from school lessons that some porn is acceptable. And take that message off into adulthood such that girls certainly will find it harder to question those feelings of upset, anger, humiliation and betrayal that it elicits.

Start the gaslighting early.

This^^ And, reading back, I realise I took hardcore porn to be extreme porn. But, frankly, with this level of gaslighting going on, what would be the reasoning do not discuss extreme pornography with 11-year-olds? If you're going to discuss anal sex, choking and gangbangs, which will come under hard-core, why would they not ask them about extreme porn as well. Could it possibly be because that would be a bridge too far for parents and teachers?

I find it utterly depressing that one of the reasons people think we should be discussing this with our children is 'they are going to find out anyway, in a worse way'.

Not because that's not true, but because it shouldn't be the answer.

And reading back again I realise my misinterpretation was on the other thread not this one!

The New Year's Eve attacks a couple of years ago on women in Cologne and other German cities- ignored by the liberal media, reported on by The Mail. When The Guardian finally picked up on it they turned it into an opinion piece blaming the female victims.

They did. It was appalling, and was the last straw in my regular readership of the Guardian.

Guardian or Daily Mail?

I bought my first pair of knickers in January. Within a month, I was wearing knickers and tights under my clothes almost all the time. My partner of 20 years has embraced this wholeheartedly. Sometimes we go shopping together. I let the sales ladies know I am shopping for myself. As I pay, I smile and wink, as if to say, “I am enjoying this even if you aren’t.”

Link

I think that what this actually exposes are these non-professional teaching/educator groups who are collaborating with schools to create these packs/workbooks/teaching materials.

Yes, I think this is true.

I wonder if part of the reason this has happened is that increasingly people in education don't feel like they know what to say about these things? There is no longer much of a social consensus on many issues, and given that is the case, how do you design some sort of program?

So they are happy enough to leave the design of the materials to people they think are experts, though in fact they are people who are very much taking one perspective? In a way similar to the way government tries to say their decision making is "science-led" in order to avoid having to really take a leadership position on political decisions.

reading back, I realise I took hardcore porn to be extreme porn.

I'm not sure what people are thinking it means - it's not ood/bad or extreme/non-extreme. It is mainly about whether they show genital penetration and whether the sex is real or not. In many places the distinction had (and maybe still has) legal ramifications, for example whether it is allowed to be broadcast.

My understanding of extreme porn is partly the violence involved. The viewer is meant to be left in some doubt as to whether or not the woman concerned has truly been injured, or has died.

In other words it's meant to look so authentic, you think it could be true.

not bad me too. Its very worrying

Not sure about whether material is different for each age group. I posted the link to where the school lessons are downloaded and if you scroll down you do get to:

PSHE
KS3 PSHE – www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/subjects/ztvg9j6
KS4 PSHE – www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/subjects/z3ckjxs
Year 7 – classroom.google.com/u/1/c/NTQyNjQ5NDU3MzRa (Code: vtdv2mj)
Year 8 – classroom.google.com/u/1/c/NTQyNTgyODE3OTVa (Code: gzkvoda)
Year 9 – classroom.google.com/u/1/c/NTQyNjQ5NDU3NjBa (Code: nosz6ld)
Y9 – 9ME3/ps – classroom.google.com/u/0/c/NTQyMDE3MDU5NTRa – (Code: p5uzf3v)

Page link is sentamu.com/lesson-resources/

Dd17 says they have discussed the various types of porn in pshe, but that's 6th form level.

I would be worried about the mental health and the suitability of a person to be in the teaching profession in the first place, if they were actively promoting these lessons or God forbid taking them.
It should IMHO be a criminal offence, but as we know, it is being promoted and then taught to children by organisations which must not be questioned.

What on earth is breast ironing? If I've made it to 31 years old never needing to know what that is, an 11 year old doesn't need to know!