Surrogacy on the NHS

[Viewfromtheisland]

Didn’t know it was allowed in Scotland but I’ve been educated by the Daily Record today....

fanny Don't think we've met? Don't think I care to. Don't think you have any basis for pretending to be a friend of mine. Not in the slightest intimidated. In fact, I rather despite such tactics myself.

Errr I don't think Fanny was trying to make friends Ov9...

Hahaha yes indeed OhHolyJesus
I tend not to choose friends who have no care or concern for the rights and safety of women and babies.

Ditto Fanny

I'm unlikely to find common ground with those who buy babies.

Ov9 could offer her insights due to her experience of Surrogacy on the NHS if that's what happened to her, as this is what the OP is about, but if she is uncomfortable talking about that, based on responses she could help us to understand the Surrogacy payment process and total by explaining how much she paid in "reasonable expenses".

I understand it's usually paid on a monthly basis throughout the pregnancy, did your surrogate mother monthly get a bonus upon delivery (in the form of cash, bank transfer or gifts? Did it go through an agency or was it paid directly? Or did you have a friend or family member have a baby for you and you just paid for petrol and some stretch mark cream and maternity clothes?)

I saw something a while ago about there being a study on uterus transplants and I thought it was a hoax

Not a hoax. Read this earlier thread by someone who applied to take part:

Imperial College Womb Transplant Survey Redux http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3605548-Imperial-College-Womb-Transplant-Survey-Redux

Thanks Eresh I thought Posie Parker has exposed it as a hoax but then a follow up email from Imperial College said something like "when you say women you mean transwomen are women right". I paraphrase. I genuinely didn't know what to make of it. I wouldn't have thought it possible that even an initial feasibility study on such practices would pass the Ethics Committee.

I realise womb transplants in women have fairly recently resulted in live births but there were plenty of those who didn't make it just by experimenting.

The reddit thread on the topic made for some difficult reading, one teenage boy (in the Middle East IIRC) seemed euphoric at the possibility that he may be a 'mother' and carry and give birth to his own child. I'm not sure there are some ethic and moral questions around even suggesting it might be possible TBH.

IIRC the lead researcher said something like "it is not legally, ethically or medically possible to implant a uterus into a male" in his response to Posie Parker. Very disingenuous.

Yet the documents, provided to the applicant by Imperial, in the google drive which is linked in the thread show that they thought it would be legal discrimination under the EA for the legal prohibition on implanting uteruses (uteri?) into males to continue. Worth reading those documents to see how they envisaged the surgery and other elements of the process.

Found the screenshot of the response to
Posie Parker (it's in the thread, her FB no longer exists)

"The answer is an easy no. We will never even consider performing womb transplants in men. This is not possible, legal nor do I think there is a demand for it"

Answering her knowing full well she included MTFs in "men". And saying that it's not "possible". Their linked paperwork covers all the criteria he mentions; legality, medical possibility and demand.

Oooh have you got the link to the google doc link eresh? I'd like a browse through those.

If Ben here says he doesn't think there is a demand for it why is he the lead research on the feasibility study? His entire position and employment contract is disingenuous.

drive.google.com/open?id=1PQuMJAkGc7jex5Kgr9EEvlIqkSmsbBGg

Part of the reason I took myself of automatic organ donation

Me too California - 'novel' transplants indeed. No one would want my knackered out womb but still, it was my child's home and you're not having it.

Oh and thanks for the link Eresh x

No problem at all. I imagine you found the documents as concerning and chilling as I did.

Or will find them.

Yes, I do.

There really are some people who really don't see women as human beings.

Indeed there are.

Just posting this here.

There's nothing money can't buy.

www.wired.co.uk/article/coronavirus-lockdown-surrogacy-industry

Thanks @OhHolyJesus
Not an article that is good for my blood pressure.

“Nobody is legally responsible for that child until we’re both in Ukraine,” says Sophie. “The only thing we can do is put pressure on the French government. They are being absolutely inhumane and they should be ashamed of what they’re doing.” Sophie is also concerned for the wellbeing of her surrogate. “She is physically okay, but mentally a mess,” she says.

THEY USED A SURROGATE MOTHER WHO HAD PREVIOUSLY GIVEN BIRTH PREMATURELY SO THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT NOT GETTING THERE IN TIME. oh and they're a bit worried about her mental well being. But it's the French government that is inhumane.

Honestly this people trafficking/baby trafficking on a global scale.

And the gay couple from Italy should be worried. I have read an article earlier today that pointed out how Italy is not helpful to couples returning from abroad with a baby as surrogacy is illegal in Italy and one baby was taken from the commissioning parents and put up for adoption.

I don't have any sympathy either.

If you pursue this sort of an arrangement the travel and distance is always going to be an issue, flight delays and cancellations happen in normal times, and especially when there's a global pandemic your entitlement doesn't take priority over the health and safety of anyone, even with a private plane!

They left their country to do something that is illegal in their own country. I'm not surprised that the french govt aren't jumping through hoops to do their bidding.

Vile people and that poor surrogate mother is going to need a lot of help, I hope she doesn't expect any from them, she's fulfilled her contract they aren't going to stump up for private counselling post-birth.

Thanks for the link to the Wired story. Interesting use of language - it's the surrogacy 'industry' and as per, the women who are pregnant and due to give birth are 'surrogates' and not surrogate 'mothers'.

Is there any word of concern for the mothers in that story at all? Or concern for the babies? Oh yes...apart from the fact that Sophie's 'surrogate' is mentally 'a mess'. Well, colour me surprised.

This 'industry' creates inevitable problems, which demand massive amounts of money and heartbreak, and which risk leaving deprived women traumatised, in poor health and discarded.

It's indefensible.

You're right tiktok and I noticed today that UK government guidelines ref 'surrogates'. 'Mother' has been entirely removed.

Removing the word ‘mother’ removes the personhood and the humanity and the agency of these women. It’s not accidental. It makes it easier to ignore their normal, human needs.

No it allows them to what they are-a woman, not a mother. These are not women who struggle to have babies and they certainly don't want a baby who isn't related to their family. They define themselves as kind people goihggng on a journey to make s huge difference. And of