Trans Widows' Escape Committee 4 - A New Hope

[TinselAngel]

Who would have thought we'd make it to thread 4?

Let's have some mutual pats on the back for the amazing support women on these threads have given to other trans widows, and the accidental consciousness raising that has come about as a result of this community.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

We now have a website which has been very well recived, and if any women who have contributed to these threads would like to write their story for inclusion on the website that would be wonderful.

Do post to get the new thread going. Links to the website and previous threads will follow.

As ever our thoughts are with the women still stuck in these relationships- check in, we do worry about you.

I think that's true across the board, regardless of whether they're AGP or HSTS or something else that we haven't identified and analyses yet.

Ultimately it comes down to sexual incompatibility.

But the people saying "you're being homophobic for not accepting your wife's transness; you need to be kinder" can fuck right off, because they're telling us to be kind to our abusers because the poor dears just can't help being abusive.

Which is misogynistic as hell.

Yes I don’t see why not wanting to continue the marriage/relationship is conflated with “invalidating” “not accepting” “phobic”. Frustrating! It is a fundamental change in compatibility. If some are just as happy with the new comparability ok fine but not being ok with it is not an attack on the person who has changed.

I'm thinking it's a fundamental change in the balance of power, too.

The balance of power in heterosexual relationships is skewed in men's favour anyway (because, well, patriarchy). They get to be intractable and unreasonable and we have to do all the running around trying to find "compromises" that are anything but.

Invoking trans puts a massive extra weight into an already-imbalanced system. It gives them an advantage way above and beyond that afforded by their maleness, in terms of interpersonal relations.

"Being trans" - by which I simply mean declaring themselves to be so - makes them far more powerful; and power in a pair-bond is a see-saw. Their gain is our loss.

Why should we accept this powerlessness?

Interesting question for us, why this is different from a spouse coming out as gay.
Similar, as I'm guessing theses for 'gay widows' are betrayal, lives lived as a lie, wasted years, great personal pain and feelings of rejection, questioning of one's own sexuality/attractiveness/sexual role in the relationship. Both may involve pre-disclosure secret lives unknown to the partner. Plus both involve very intimate parts of our lives, and the majority of relationships break up in order to not continue living a lie. Post-coming-out I imagine those women feel shame and embarrassment that they didn't know/realize, and self-consciousness over the judgements of others on their private relationship.
However

1. a newly-out gay usually man does not want to continue the relationship as he is not attracted to his partner; the deal may be staying together for show/children/stability but him pursuing his sexual life elsewhere;

• in ours partners often want to stay, even if we are no longer attracted to them and in fact positively repulsed. They want us to sleep with them, and often to collude in their fetish/fantasy, sissification etc.

2. in those situations, it is not hard to believe that someone is gay. It is a self-declared orientation.

• in ours, we may not believe our partner is actually gender-dysphoric, and certainly may not believe any evidence that they are actually 'a woman'.

3. in those situations, men don't tend to spend lots of money on their new lifestyle to the detriment of their households and children.

• late transitioners make quite a meal of transition. I'm comparing this my teen's friend - a young woman deciding she's male, and continuing to have short hair and wear jeans. Late transitioners relentlessly and repetitively seem to go the whole drag-like hog: nails, hair, clothes,shoes, lingerie, porn, accessories, hair-removal. It's a time-consuming and self-absorbing hobby of playing 'woman'.

3. Sexual orientation is just part of someone's identity; it isn't hard to retain the person even if this happens. Late transitioners appear to change profoundly and wholly, however much TAs shout 'they're still the same person'. Our experience is of wholesale rejection of previous interests, behaviours and relationships, and the crafting of an entire new person. Gay men don't change their name, have their genitals cut off, take hormones, have voice-coaching etc etc etc
4. Deciding you're gay seems to be based on evidence, behaviour, responses to others. Deciding your trans seems to be all about feelz, and your stereotype of what it means to be a woman and what bits of that experience you want to try on for size. Doesn't look quite as evidence-based to me.
5. Lumping these experiences together when it comes to berating women for being 'bigots' is very blinkered. Nobody accuses a woman of being homophobic if they end a relationship with a newly-gay man. Nobody accuses women of being homophobic if they don't want to sleep with a gay man... actually the more I write this the more I realize how ridiculous their position is. Thoughts welcome, All.

I think also the whole concept of "acceptance without exception" / "born this way" etc, implies nobody should have the right to be angry if their spouse comes out as gay, let alone trans.

If they were born that way, they knew they were gay or trans from a young age and stood at the altar misrepresenting themselves before their God, if they have one, and entering into a false marriage contract. That alone is enough reason to divorce. It's a huge betrayal.

1. Go social worker! that's brilliantly put. I feel an urge to share parts / all of it.
2. Just spoken to a solicitor (go me) who said unreasonable behaviour could be a grounds, but I don't have to mention the trans thing, I can go off other stuff, and would need to have 5 or so examples of "unreasonable behaviour". On reflection, "I don't want to be married to a woman, I married a man" should be enough.

There is big hill I need to climb, and I am standing at the style at the bottom, building up courage to step over the style, because once I have crossed it, there is no going back.

Well, if I may interject, wrt the issue of mixed sexuality marriages being leveraged to troll transwidows.
It seems to me that the attitude TRAs have towards women with husbands who identify as trans is very similar to the attitude of the conservative Christians who believe that a lesbian marrying a man is a method of cure of her 'fault', and that submission in this manner is a supreme example of love.
In each case, the woman is being asked to subsume her own self and sexuality in the service of both a man's individual desire and a higher ideology.

Yet again, trans ideology is co-opting the language of LGB oppressions, and the methods of those who oppress LGB people.

As others have mentioned, when a man comes out, he is not asking his wife to stay with him and be a prop to his identity. In fact, a gay man coming out to his wife is actually reversing the process - she is no longer being asked to help him pretend to be something else. His coming out is essentially freeing of her of that role. This is the polar opposite of what transwidows face from everything I have read from them over time.

"I don't want to be married to a woman, I married a man" should be enough

It should; in fact "I don't want to be married to this person" should be enough.

But personally I'd be inclined to play silly buggers and say "I'm heterosexual, so being married to a woman doesn't work for me," at least to the husband if not to the lawyer.

It is the ultimate get out strategy because they can't then say "Don't be silly it's not as if I'm really a woman".

That is part of what floors me I think. The shock that accepting them as “she” also means partner can’t just “choose” to change their sexual orientation. The “well you tried some stuff before”...and didn’t happen to enjoy it...have zero cares who else enjoys what between consenting adults but personally got nothing and felt like my presence wasn’t required anyways.

Some people don’t like tomatoes but giving them a try once doesn’t mean they now must obviously love tomatoes because well they tried it.

I’m tired of feeling the pressure is all on me. Though still saying if there was some effort even approaching bare minimum with housework and spending time with the child I’d be more inclined to pretzel myself. The self absorption combined with this pandemic isolation is just gnawing are me. But why would they go, zero responsibility and everything provided free of charge. Special protected status to boot as now any rejection can be tired to being “not accepting”.

*rejection can be tied. Not tired as I obviously am.

Hi, I'm new here. I am a transwidow who isn't very good at tech stuff. I can't even remember what name I chose on here weeks ago when I first thought I'd join and then was daunted by the unfamiliar forum. I guess I'll see it after I post this 😆. Anyway, hello! I'm a mum of three, I'll be 49 in a few days, I live in Ireland. I escaped my now ex husband a good while ago but I've only recently begun to flourish. His leaving the country for good may have helped and also finding my tribe and writing out my story with their help and encouragement. I will link it in next message if appropriate. I hope I can be of help to other women who find themselves in a similar situation to mine. I've already noticed a few things I wanted to comment on but thought I should introduce myself first. Much love and solidarity to you all ❤️❤️

Wombat? What was I thinking 😆

Hi Wombat

Yes, do link your story.

Thank you, Tinsel angel. Here it is:
www.transwidowsvoices.org/amp/philomena-s-story-there-and-back-again?__twitter_impression=true

Hi, I thought it was probably you 👋🏻

I'm having a rough day. The woman who wrote the books I read to my kids when I was trapped is being ripped to pieces. She literally (ha) got me through hell. I can't stop shaking and I'm starting to freak out my kids. And I was feeling like such a warrior this morning. Dammit.

Apologies for coming over here when I'm not myself a trans widow, but here's an article from the Times for you Wombat. The BTL comments show what happens when you step out of the Twitter bubble. Most people are supportive of JKR. Keep reading those books, and read them with pride. I'm about to go and order her adult books (which I haven't yet read) to keep those royalties flowing in.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/radcliffe-and-rowling-in-twitter-row-over-transgender-identity-h9nf3kd0p

I'm hoping it comes out as a share token so it's not paywalled.

It doesn't share unfortunately.
And hello WOmbat

I agree with Cara that I don't think the JKR drama extends far beyond the Twitter/ online bubble.

Happy to report that I think I made strides in setting some boundaries and hopefully explaining that it is not likely my romantic attraction will apply to a ‘woman’. Cohabitating for the near future. I’m focusing more on work and my child and my hobbies.

Of course now today I’m in tears grieving over the husband I’m losing and a longing to just be okay with it all.

Expressed my needs for more equity around the work around the house (even without this issue I’ve built up a lot of resentment). Hormones started so will see if the self absorption gets even worse or gets better. The changes coming are going to be hard.

Welcome @Wombatmama.

I've never posted on this thread before as I'm not a transwidow but I lurk on FWR and came over here to take a look.

Wombat I've just read your story; thank you for being brave enough to share it, and I'm so glad you're in a better place now

Of course now today I’m in tears grieving over the husband I’m losing and a longing to just be okay with it all.*

You will grieve, Maureen it's completely natural. Several actual widows have told me that they think what we go through is worse than an actual death, because at least they have their happy memories intact whereas ours are all tarnished.

Before you long too much to be OK with it, I'd suggest you visualise what your life would be like if you went along with it and stayed together. Imagine having to be the cheerleader for his brave new life. Imagine suddenly being part of an LGBT scene that is nothing really to do with you. Imagine what an imposter you would feel.

Amongst many other things, thinking about it that way was one of the things that clinched it for me.