Trans Widows' Escape Committee 4 - A New Hope

[TinselAngel]

Who would have thought we'd make it to thread 4?

Let's have some mutual pats on the back for the amazing support women on these threads have given to other trans widows, and the accidental consciousness raising that has come about as a result of this community.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

We now have a website which has been very well recived, and if any women who have contributed to these threads would like to write their story for inclusion on the website that would be wonderful.

Do post to get the new thread going. Links to the website and previous threads will follow.

As ever our thoughts are with the women still stuck in these relationships- check in, we do worry about you.

Message me if you want the details

Hello,

I found these threads a couple of days ago. I'm not a trans widow but I wanted to offer my support to all of you going through this.

I spent too many years in an emotionally and sexually abusive relationship and a lot of the behaviours I see described here about constant boundary pushing - especially around sex - are things that I really recognise from that relationship.

My ex really got off on the power trip of getting me to participate in sex that I didn't like. He also had a knack for making huge logical leaps and jumping between different topics, making it really difficult to pin down what we were talking about -- other than that I was wrong or offensive in some way.

A lot of this sounds similar to things I'm reading here about partners continually pushing for more and more fetishised sex; and logicking you into feeling unreasonable or bigoted for objecting.

So I just wanted to say that I'm sorry to hear about what you are going through. These behaviours are straight up manipulative and cruel. You shouldn't have to deal with such unkindness and I'm sorry that you do.

Solidarity xx

Well, I wanted to give an update. My divorce was finalized 2 weeks ago. On the day of the hearing, I was a mess and my emotions were all over the place. Kept thinking about my wedding day, and how happy we were.

Now 2 weeks on, I feel relieved. Like a weight has been lifted. No more drama, no more worries about my husbands emotions and the "journey" and its just not my problem anymore. He still lives here in guest room, and I am working on refinancing to get his name off of the mortgage. Of course, the ex has been chatting to men for months and is planning to go out of state in a few weeks to meet a guy she fancies, has been buying all sorts of lingerie in preparation. I am just so done with it all.

Overall, I feel good. Not great, but good this whole insanity is over and I did what I could.

Congratulations EastCoast. Here's to a new, FREE life!

EastCoast so glad to hear the paperwork is final. Sounds like a lot of stress that they are still there at the house. Hope there are plans for that to change in the future. Cheers to no more drama! You are correct that you did what you could.

Thank you InvisibleDragon for the show of support. Sorry to hear you have dealt with abuse as well.

No new updates here. Upshot is at roommate status. Down shot (is that a phrase?) is still not an equitable arrangement but working on it. Doing loads of detachment work to not be brought down by all of their drama. Most days doing ok and still waves of grief for the memories of a person that was apparently pretend.

Thank you Seaside The memories of the person who was apparently a facade are some of the most difficult ones to process. Its sounds insane right? It took me a good year to accept it, and I still cant believe my lovely husband was a fake, an actor, and a made up persona. It really makes me question my own ability to read people and attract this sort of crazy. I think its a mental illness, but of course that viewpoint is not allowed in this day and age. Its not something that should be normalized, and no amount of trans rights discussion will ever make me think otherwise. The prevalence of all these gender options has made men think they can do whatever they like. Maybe in the future they will do that, and not marry women in the first place, and waste years of our lives.

EastCoast can you not get him out? Why after a divorce is he allowed to live with you?

MonkeyBusiness Lads I am waiting to finish the mortgage refinancing to give her some cash to leave and then she will move out. Its ok, we still get along and don't argue so its not a volatile situation.

Congratulations East coast. So glad to hear you've felt that relief. Getting the practical/legal/financial stuff sorted can really feel like progress and movement. Hope you can keep the momentum going and eventually be secure and independent. It's interesting you look back at the 'he' ex as fake. For me the made-up person isn't the man I married and divorced, but the strange fake woman he now pretends to be. I've never believed that was his true, authentic identity, just him trying to act as someone new because of his issues (and yes, I think it can fall into mental illness/personality disorder). Your amicable and tolerant arrangement is clearly manageable for you. Good luck and be proud of yourself for being proactive and decisive.

Great news East and gives hope to people like Maureen who are still in the trenches.

The conundrum of which persona was real and which was fake can drive you insane and it's one I've given a lot of thought to.

Whilst you're with them, certainly in my case, the decision to transition appears to be something they struggle with due to the gravity of it, but then after the event they seem to lose all that.

I think this is largely down to queer theory/ the piggy backing on gay rights in that they have to say that they were "born this way", that they didn't have a choice, that it was transition or die.

What should we believe, the evidence in front of our own eyes at the time, or the rationalisation they tell the world afterwards? I've decided to believe that people change, and then they rewrite the past to justify and excuse that change.

I don't have terrible judgement and it wasn't all lies. He changed and I wasn't prepared to change with him.

The conundrum is a bewildering question that I realize I will probably never know or believe any answer to. Partners certainly don't have to believe what they are told. I was with my ex for many years and was able to link the transition to all his previous restlessness, dissatisfaction, introspection and narcissism. So it was just the next version of this rather empty person. We know these men well and may conclude our own narrative that makes sense. You rightly identify the sway Seaside between picking over what happened and feeling the full loss (waves of grief is spot on) and practising detachment. That part is vital for relief, space to think, and refocussing on you, what you want, and what you need to do. Self-care is an absolute priority (I say that with hindsight, having somewhat overused booze to get through ). You're making progress. What impressive women populate these pages

@socialworker222

Congratulations East coast. So glad to hear you've felt that relief. Getting the practical/legal/financial stuff sorted can really feel like progress and movement. Hope you can keep the momentum going and eventually be secure and independent. It's interesting you look back at the 'he' ex as fake. For me the made-up person isn't the man I married and divorced, but the strange fake woman he now pretends to be. I've never believed that was his true, authentic identity, just him trying to act as someone new because of his issues (and yes, I think it can fall into mental illness/personality disorder). Your amicable and tolerant arrangement is clearly manageable for you. Good luck and be proud of yourself for being proactive and decisive.

Social from my perspective, the male side was fake in that he was never satisfied with his life, underemployed, depressed, took on various personas of masculine males (wearing work boots, growing a beard, being "tough") and these never lasted long. He would flit from being poncy like Oscar Wilde to being a skinhead type (minus the racist stuff). It was all an act, and it never satisfied him for long. The female persona is another side of the same coin - he thinks that now this is his real self and will make his life happy. This "woman" is doing the same things the man did - impulsive shopping (but this time for lingerie), going online looking for validation ( from men now) , and acting like Greta Garbo in drag. Its just another persona, gleaned from films and books. I certainly hope this is her real persona, because there is no going back from bottom surgery!

I have come to the conclusion he is a very troubled person, with deep mental illness. Almost like people with multiple personalities. And of course, when I say this to anyone (which I rarely do), I am told that being transgender is as valid as being gay. I just shake my head and move on. They never had to live with these people and see this destructive behavior in person.

Wow East coast you just described my ex ... One of the most painful parts of it for me was the years I spent trying to make him happy, fulfilled and improve our relationship, always assuming it was me/us/something that I could improve for him. Realising I couldn't have changed things, and he wasted good years of my life, is painful and something other women on here talk about often. Life with a damaged, self-absorbed and eternally-dissarisfied person erodes our own happiness and confidence, which is of course why getting free has to be better even if a slow and terrible process.

Regarding what was real and what was fake, I don't think there has ever been a real authentic person. For whatever reason they were so damaged before their personality formed, they became an empty shell who absorbed whatever persona they felt would serve them best at that time and changed the outer appearance to fit that.

My ex changed who and what he was many times in his life as a man and was deeply frustrated and angry when it didn't work out and blamed those around him. Now as a woman he is still changing persona and style at least once a year, currently advertising himself as a spiritual vegan yoga teacher (always been an atheist, never did yoga and never been vegan).

I look at how happy and rewarding my life is now while he is still deeply unhappy and alone. The previously attractive man, who had many women on the go at the same time in years gone by, has been surgically destroyed and he no longer has that to use as narcissistic supply.

Blimey. I say it again. You just described my ex. I think your analysis is spot-on. Blaming others, and the lurching into new things is so familiar. Despite supposedly finding The Answer, mine continues to cycle through hobbies and looks, and Pinterests bizarre 1970s childhood 'girl' stuff which his teenage children find frankly 'creepy' from a middle-aged adult. Fascinating.
Always good to remind those behind us on this journey that you can get out and get happy again...

To help with my plans for how to keep moving Trans Widows' Voices, and the Escape Committee forward, please could all of you who have posted on the thread tell me how you found it? eg Was it recommended to you? Did you find us on Twitter? Did you google trans widows? Were you on mumsnet already?

Thanks

I found you because of a mention in another thread here, no idea which.

Not being a trans widow, all I can do is read, mark, and resolve never to ignore it if anyone I know is in a similar position, and never to fail them if they are.

I am enormously grateful to all here for helping to show me something I feel I need to know about, so I can try to make things better rather than worse for anyone suffering it. Thank you all.

Darn. Can't remember. Definitely not via Twitter and I wasn't already on MN bit joined because of the thread. So I must have Googled I guess...

And that's a lovely message Asking... It is great to know there are women out there thinking about us, understanding our positions and showing us that kind of compassion.

I found you via a mention on FWR. I am aware of a young adult who has DID. The father dressed as a woman as far back as this young person can recall.

Hello everyone. Long-term MNer (that’s how I found this thread), NC for this. I’ve been lurking FOREVER and procrastinating about whether or not I should post. I guess the thing I have to ask myself is ‘What do I want?’ In other words, what do I hope to gain by sharing my situation with others? Advice? A hand-hold? To rant? To help others? Maybe all of those things and none, because most of the time I don’t even think about it (he’s gone) but I can’t keep away from trans threads and then I get wound up and angry all over again.

Well that was a paragraph of waffle. Let me start with my greatest concern. DC don’t know what their dad has become. I don’t want them to ever know. It would be easier if he had died. If he ever comes back into DC’s life it will mess them up because he has a whole host of personality and neurological disorders which mean that prolonged contact with anyone invariably leads to heartbreak for that person. He has fallen out with his entire family. He sees the people who love him as enemies, and casual acquaintances as his best friends. He cannot read people or situations (ASD). He flits from one obsession to another, and when he’s done with one he drops it completely (that goes for people too).

I am glad he has walked out on both me and DC, but what if he takes it into his head to turn up one day? It’s been over 2 years, but what if he starts demanding access? DC are hurt by his abandonment but if he pops up again it will be even worse because he won’t be able to sustain contact. He’ll never be there for them emotionally, and I don’t want them thinking it’s ok to be a sex-obsessed AGP with no qualifications, job, home or future. That’s NOT the life I want for them.

I want to get divorced but I don’t want to contact him because he might start making demands like ‘I’ll agree to a divorce if you let me speak to DC’ even though he doesn’t want to be married to me or talk to DC, it would be a bargaining tool.

Am I making sense? Can anyone help me put things in perspective? Should I just leave things as they are and hope he never comes back? It feels like the sword of Damocles. And what happens when DC are old enough to demand answers and demand to see him? What if he tells them I forced him to stay away? It’s not true, but you know how they manipulate things. Or what happens when he realises this is just another persona which he abandons and becomes ‘he’ again? That won’t make everything ok.

To clarify, it's been 2 years since his 'transition' and no contact, but 6 years since he left the family home.

I didn't want to read and run. I'm glad you posted @TieYourCannons

I'm just a reader of this thread but you'll get some great support from Tinsel and the other women here, even if all you want to do is chat and vent a bit.

Thank you, OvaHere :)

@TieYourCannons

Hello everyone. Long-term MNer (that’s how I found this thread), NC for this. I’ve been lurking FOREVER and procrastinating about whether or not I should post. I guess the thing I have to ask myself is ‘What do I want?’ In other words, what do I hope to gain by sharing my situation with others? Advice? A hand-hold? To rant? To help others? Maybe all of those things and none, because most of the time I don’t even think about it (he’s gone) but I can’t keep away from trans threads and then I get wound up and angry all over again.

Well that was a paragraph of waffle. Let me start with my greatest concern. DC don’t know what their dad has become. I don’t want them to ever know. It would be easier if he had died. If he ever comes back into DC’s life it will mess them up because he has a whole host of personality and neurological disorders which mean that prolonged contact with anyone invariably leads to heartbreak for that person. He has fallen out with his entire family. He sees the people who love him as enemies, and casual acquaintances as his best friends. He cannot read people or situations (ASD). He flits from one obsession to another, and when he’s done with one he drops it completely (that goes for people too).

I am glad he has walked out on both me and DC, but what if he takes it into his head to turn up one day? It’s been over 2 years, but what if he starts demanding access? DC are hurt by his abandonment but if he pops up again it will be even worse because he won’t be able to sustain contact. He’ll never be there for them emotionally, and I don’t want them thinking it’s ok to be a sex-obsessed AGP with no qualifications, job, home or future. That’s NOT the life I want for them.

I want to get divorced but I don’t want to contact him because he might start making demands like ‘I’ll agree to a divorce if you let me speak to DC’ even though he doesn’t want to be married to me or talk to DC, it would be a bargaining tool.

Am I making sense? Can anyone help me put things in perspective? Should I just leave things as they are and hope he never comes back? It feels like the sword of Damocles. And what happens when DC are old enough to demand answers and demand to see him? What if he tells them I forced him to stay away? It’s not true, but you know how they manipulate things. Or what happens when he realises this is just another persona which he abandons and becomes ‘he’ again? That won’t make everything ok.

OK. Assuming you are in the UK, you can divorce after 5 years without his consent, so assuming you split up 5 or more years ago he's not in a position to bargain.

With regards to your children, I am a firm believer in telling them an age appropriate truth. Keeping it a secret is unsustainable. You don't say what the history was of your relationship with him and whether the cross dressing etc started while you were together, but we don't have to continue to be the secret keeper.

It feels like the sword of Damocles because it is. The most stressful things in life in my view are all to do with not being in control of your own life. You need to take control. You will feel much better for it