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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Julie Bindel on twitter

314 replies

Anonymouswasawoman · 29/04/2020 12:56

Did her account get deleted?
twitter.com/bindelj/
Twitter is telling me it doesn't exist Confused

OP posts:
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6
Floisme · 03/05/2020 14:27

I've seen Bindel and Kathleen Stock having a pop at Posie Parker on Twitter but never seen JCJ do that.

It strikes me that the connection between them is more about loyalty to the left than academia. They're entitled to feel that way but the left does not own feminism.

SunsetBeetch · 03/05/2020 14:28

I mean another, specific, and if true aa more seriosus issue , not the current row. She went down in my estimations for that.

BadLady · 03/05/2020 14:28

What's a PhD by proxy?!? Confused

howonearthdidwegethere · 03/05/2020 14:33

I don't think Jane (or the others, for that matter) are saying that the left owns feminism. My reading is that it's important to them to plant their flag in the ground as being on the left, even though they recognise that many on the left have shat on women.

Everyone has to do what they personally are comfortable with.

If Jane and others were trying to stop someone like Posie from doing her campaigning, that would be problematic IMO. But they're not (in fact, Jane says she admires Posie's campaigning skills): they're just saying they personally want to be clear that their personal politics don't align.

I really struggle to understand why that is so problematic.

Coyoacan · 03/05/2020 14:34

I didn't read that as an epic rant either. I would have liked to wade into the debate but I only just managed to finish reading what she said when she deleted.

From what I gather, a group of women philosophers and their mates had an idea about how this whole thing should play out and got the rage when Posie et al. stepped outside their narrative.

I'm very fond of JCJ and grateful for her extremely clear way of explaining complex issues. But I disagree with making everything a left vs right issue.

I do not see how an idea can change political allegiance depending on who espouses it?

There is a discussion to be had about whether we should be absolutist when saying TWANW or make exceptions for people we like.

BustedWench · 03/05/2020 14:35

Odd that Stock was all good supporting Harry, who seems pretty right wing, and solid evidence of him being a Tommeh fan being glossed over whilst Posie is demonised

Bflatmajorsharp · 03/05/2020 14:38

I just caught the tweet where JCJ said that she was going to screen shot the thread to put on her website then delete.

But I can't find it on her website - what's it called does anyone know?

I feel very sad about these Twitter wars. They're an inevitable side effect of using the medium as intensely as Kathleen, Julie and Jane do and this has been a long, hard slog for them.

Lockdown also escalating emotions for lots of people.

I love JCJ, so smart, erudite and funny, although it worries me when she exposes vulnerabilities in a public domain (like Julie does, and Stock has recently).

Tempting and easy to do when you're had a run of friendly interactions, but a risky tactic for women already so in the eye of online abuse.

I'm glad that she's taking a break though. It's too much for anyone to be out there like that all the time.

AmericanSlang · 03/05/2020 14:44

I copied the link before she deleted her Twitter account, hopefully it works

Bflatmajorsharp · 03/05/2020 14:46

Thanks so much.

BustedWench · 03/05/2020 14:46

Stock is a newbie, she is recently in the fight.

Floisme · 03/05/2020 14:47

I like JCJ too, but I wanted her to stop, especially when she started posting screenshots which, as far as I was concerned, didn't reveal what she seemed to think they were revealing.

hellandhairnets · 03/05/2020 14:55

I didn't read JCJ's thread as an "epic rant" either, more of an explanation of her own feelings, and she is not at the centre of this for a lot of people who are upset about it. I've always found her quite considered and her posts interesting. I'm not interested in slagging off people simply because they're academics and people think that's cliquey per se. There is from the outside obviously a load of 'background' going on that was to do with ongoing issues connected with the Posie/Julia stuff as well as some other infighting and shit-stirring drama between particular individuals and factions.

But for a lot of people in the last couple of days, what's just blown up has bugger all to do with that particular spat and more to do with the particular behaviour of two or three individuals. being seen directly slagging off anon accounts post Jameela Jamil incident and in one case being extremely rude directly to someone anon in a "you're just a nobody" kind of way, a bunch of Twitter mates doing a kind of "oh well done YOU telling the plebs what's what" afterwards and then revived, not by JCJ at all, but a particularly snotty post by Sarah Ditum getting in on the act and being even worse.

None of it a good look. Divide and conquer and all that. But I do think some of what is some frankly appalling classism in there has been brewing for a while and it's not wrong that it's been called out.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 03/05/2020 14:56

I've unfollowed a load of blue tick accounts today. I wasn't involved in the JJ thing but the reactions have helped me realise how little my voice is valued by lots of blue ticks.

Luffs ya Moody.

BustedWench · 03/05/2020 15:08

It was an epic rant, an epic one stating women were bullying them whilst they openly slagged off a woman and expected to get away with it.

Posie will confirm that her and I haven't seen eye to eye, but she was vilified and ostracised by these women and they're the good guys? Nah I'm not buying it

Coyoacan · 03/05/2020 15:10

I'm not certain it is a class thing as much as between people whose profession is involved with this issue, be it as a philosopher, sociologist or journalist, compared to the rest of us whose work is not involved with the issue or those whose work is involved, but are in way too vulnerable a position to be able to use their real names.

hellandhairnets · 03/05/2020 15:15

I've unfollowed a load of blue tick accounts today. I wasn't involved in the JJ thing but the reactions have helped me realise how little my voice is valued by lots of blue ticks.

Crux of it for me.

Tobeortobe · 03/05/2020 15:30

Jess Taylor was effed off about the JJ debacle and told off all the anon accounts who had been supporting her, defending her, and buying her book. She didn’t denounce anon accounts as the others did, but she did bite the hand that feeds her.
Ditum, Stock and Becca (has she lost her blue tick?) took the opportunity to pounce on anon accounts and have been extremely rude and unpleasant to what are essentially their bread and butter supporters (with applause from other blue ticks, most disappointingly Gia M)
JCJ is ignoring any of the very valid criticism levied at them as a group and took the opportunity to denounce a load of women who aren’t even in this discussion/fight.
It’s a shitshow

BustedWench · 03/05/2020 15:33

Nailed it 👌

RoyalCorgi · 03/05/2020 15:34

Have just read the JCJ piece (though couldn't read all the screen shots). It seemed very measured and reasonable to me.

The thing I dislike about all this is all the washing of one's dirty linen in public. People need to be having these disagreements in private, not flinging abuse at each other on Twitter where it can be seen by one's political opponents. It's not a good look.

OvaHere · 03/05/2020 15:38

If someone has a public blue tick profile on twitter I have to assume it's because there's something to be gained from it - otherwise why bother?

In the case of academic's, celebrities, journos etc... the gain must outweigh the cost because again, if it didn't they wouldn't bother.

I could post on twitter under my real name but what would be the point? I'm nobody of note, I don't have a PHD, I've never published an article anywhere, I'm not going be invited on TV or radio.

I'm a SAHM who is trying to do my bit of activism where I can so for me having a real name profile would have all the downsides and no benefits to balance it out. I assume most women who have anon twitter accounts are in a similar boat

Floisme · 03/05/2020 15:43

I thought the screenshots were the worst bit - they undermined most of what she'd been saying before about how difficult it was to talk about it without someone screenshotting and taking it out of context ... well duh. They also hinted without explaining, and so piqued my curiosity even more about matters which are probably none of my business.
I have no loyalty to anyone in this shitshow but I wanted to go round there and take her phone away.

marvellousnightforamooncup · 03/05/2020 15:44

Pretty much the state of it Tobeortobe and Corgi. Hope everyone draws a line and grows up soon.

BustedWench · 03/05/2020 15:52

Going at Julian was in bad taste, especially as both Stock and Bindel had openly acted like dicks about Julian with barely an eye brow raised.

It's OK for Stock et al., to be middle class, but if an Anon account mentions such, they're demonised.

Honestly it is an absolute shit show, and the same names appear. Go figure 🤷‍♀️

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