"My 15 yr old trans son is going through menopause - and I'm so proud of him"

[bettybeans]

http://www.essentialkids.com.au/health/health-wellbeing/my-15yearold-transgender-son-is-going-through-menopause--and-im-so-proud-of-him-20200416-h1nfe0

Christ almighty. I have been trying very hard not to go in heavy on parents of trans kids who make decisions that I simply don't understand but this whole situation just brought out absolute fury. The way she speaks about this process just enrages and saddens me in a way I can't adequately articulate. It's quite simply terrifying. I feel like I'm reading about a baptism or something.

This kid didn't stand a chance and it's absolutely heartbreaking.

If a girls at my school changed her name from a girl’s name (Sally) to another girl’s name (Sam) and wore trousers and short hair we would just treat her like any other girls with short hair and wearing trousers. Beyond that I am not sure what you think Sam would do that made herself more ‘boy like’. Presumably not join scouts, take leadership roles, play football and develop an interest in coding as those are all girl activities as much as boys ones. Lots of girls also have platonic male friends. How do you envision Sam (not short for Samantha) ‘living life as a boy’?

But ultimately it's the lesser evil and takes away Sally's need to push for more intrusive procedures until shes mature enough to really understand the potential harm.

But where does this idea of transition as a solution come from anyway? This is new, until recently the population that attempted transition was tiny, and it simply wasn't on the radar of high school kids.

What seems to be happening is a lot of the pressure is coming from the idea that it is possible to transition itself. Or to turn it around, the idea that it is not possible to be other than what you are is a precondition to integration. When society doesn't present that reality to kids in a clear way they are in a much wore position to resolve their discomfort.

But that's fine, it allows sally the time to realise who she is, and to either a) grow out of it, or b) takes the pressure and the need to transition off her until shes matured into adulthood and is able to persue the options herself knowing that this is what she really needs. But ultimately it's the lesser evil and takes away Sally's need to push for more intrusive procedures until shes mature enough to really understand the potential harm

Grow out of what?
Sally should be free & encouraged to challenge sex based stereotypes /roles (gender). As all children should as they are restrictive. Sally doesnt have to move into a non-binary box or 'transition pending' one.

And regardless of whether we want to be treated differently as a boy or a girl (and I have fought all my life to prove that I am just as capable as boys in every sense, nothing infuriated me more then being told to let one of the guys carry the heavy thing, or a women cant work that job as they cant cope with the heavy lifting etc),

I don't know, isn't this the thinking that leads to people who believe that men have no advantage over women in sports.

When I was in the military, it became very clear to me that it was false that women are as capable as men physically. Women worked hard to attain the median requirements for fitness, and if they had a child, or as they aged, they struggled to maintain that. Even older, overweight men could often outperform young fit women in terms of strength, and sometimes endurance as well. The ability to carry heavy loads over distance was not really a contest.

The boy will have a sex life if he wants one, so I don't know why that's a concern for you all.

This poor child will not have the sex life that a boy would have had because they don't have a penis or testicles, and the comment quoted illustrates exactly why compelled language around this subject is so dangerous. Someone not familiar with the subject reading that would be all "well, some boys may just have a low libido, or be very shy" - the statement is designed to direct the mind away from the reality of who the child is, what's happening to them, and what the likely results will be. It's a game we all as a society need to stop playing.

Going to get absolutely slaughtered on here for saying this, but these kids need help

You won't, though you might get deleted if those who monitor this forum for noncompliance are feeling particularly energetic. We're far from out of the water yet, but we seem to finally be approaching the point where we as societies can actually talk about what's going on with these kids in a way that isn't simply "affirm and proceed with treatment or you're a bigot".

This the world women, white women who have never experienced true pains or struggles on their lives want for the future. In a world where we have to point fingers at men for supposedly ruining things we dont take a step back to see the ones who celebrate this depraved behaviour and pin it off as empowering.

I want to have a child with my wife, but if I'm going to be honest, I'm scared that she may want to do something like this to the child. As a black man in America, I feel like I'll have no say in the issue when the time comes simply because she got the privilege of being born female and white in 2020.

Sometimes I wish there was a god to stop humanity from going in this direction, but we deserve the end results.

That Mermaids slide demonstrates an attempt to relabel every single child who's having any sort of problems as trans in order to make as many as possible eligible for transition. How anyone can look at that and not think "ffs stop recruiting" I don't know.

But ultimately it's the lesser evil and takes away Sally's need to push for more intrusive procedures until shes mature enough to really understand the potential harm

We should never ever lie to children about their bodies. We cannot keep them.safe if we do.

And how far do you let it go. Do you let them use binders because they develope early and how do you let them make " non medical " transition whilst simultaneously affirming their breasts as a problem.

Given the potential IQ drop and the fact that we aren't sure that the cognitive development that would normally happen during puberty is still happening when kids are on Lupron etc there's no reason to assume that Sally will be any more mature and better placed to make decisions a few years down the line.

I've read as much as I can and I do understand the concerns about children regretting the decision in the process. I just feel that's a minority in an already minority group and a lot of these comments do border on transphobia. Trans people do exist, because of course they do. A lot of these comments really do remind me of a conspiracy theory, like you all know something that the government and medical community don't know

I'm pulling this out not to pick on this particular poster but to point out where I think a lot of people's logic is going off the rails.

Because on one hand I see people arguing transitioning shouldn't be needed to dress as the opposite gender because there should be flexibility to gender roles, and on the other people argue male=male, female=female

Why would believing that there are male people and there are female people and that can't be changed mean that those people must dress in a specific way based on their sex or that gender roles shouldn't be flexible? My old cat used to greet me at the door and follow me around like a dog stereotypically would. He was still a cat, not a dog. Clothing and roles are not the same thing as sex, and this assumption that they must be tied together in some intrinsic way underlies a lot of very odd logic.

Trans people do exist, because of course they do
Have you ever asked where the middle aged and older women are in the trans community? Do you know any women who are married with children and in their fifties who suddenly reveal that they are and have always been men? There’s scores of men who fit this bill. They are running the TRA campaign. There are no women like this in this cohort. Have you given any thought as to why ?

Oh and what have people said that’s transphobic?

A lot of these comments really do remind me of a conspiracy theory, like you all know something that the government and medical community don't know

There is a Westminster review taking place I believe.

August 2018 Telegraph

'Women's minister 'cautious' over the number of teenagers undergoing gender reassignment treatment'
(extract)
The women’s minister has said she is “cautious” about the number of teenagers undergoing gender reassignment treatment and warned the country needs to be “particularly alert” to the issue.

Victoria Atkins expressed concern that a rising number of teenagers were seeking “life-changing” medical interventions. Young people were undergoing treatment to change their gender because they regard it as “an answer to questions they are not asking themselves”, the minister said.

In an interview with The Telegraph, Mrs Atkins, who has responsibility for the Government’s gender equality policy, said: “I read in the paper recently that there has been a large increase in the number of teenagers who are identifying as such, and I think we need to get down to the reasons why this is happening.

“It may simply be a case of greater awareness, it may be that for some they see it as an answer to questions they are perhaps not asking themselves. We need to be particularly alert to this with regard to young people. The treatments are so serious and life-changing, I’m a little cautious of the use of those treatments because of the potential for the rest of their lives.

“Lots of questions are rightly being asked about how we treat young people, people whose bodies perhaps haven’t developed yet.” (continues)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/26/womens-minister-cautious-number-teenagers-undergoing-gender/

And wolf’this is very much a campaign run by and for men. Ask yourself who benefits from all of this ? Or carry on with your ideas about women’s privilege and continue to fail to understand the underlying issues and consequently be unable to help defend your future child from this ideology.

What does "trans people exist" really mean though? What do you mean when you say a trans person? What does the medical literature say that is?

I think you will find the latter is not straightforward.

I've read as much as I can and I do understand the concerns about children regretting the decision in the process.

Guardian May 2018
Schools pulled into row over helping transgender children
As more teens come out as trans, experts clash over how schools should help
(extract)
Stephanie Davies-Arai, a parenting adviser, launched the Transgender Trend resource pack in February half-term, thinking it would barely get noticed. Instead, she says: “It just blew up”. The LGBT lobby group Stonewall accused Transgender Trend, the organisation Davies-Arai set up two-and-a-half years ago, of spreading “damaging myths, panic and confusion”, and advised local authorities not to use the pack. On Twitter, people piled in, with one describing the pack (which had been checked by lawyers) as a “modern edition of Mein Kampf”.

Davies-Arai says she took an interest in the subject because as a child she had felt herself to be a boy, and she didn’t think it was a good idea to label children like her as transgender because she believes that in some cases, these feelings resolve naturally by the end of adolescence. (continues)

Adele Robinson (not her real name), a head of year at a secondary school, shares Davies-Arai’s worries. The school has had 12 children, all girls, come out as transgender in the past 18 months. The majority, she says, have autism, and some have experienced sexual abuse.

When they come out, she says, they have brought in information sourced from Tumblr blogs and YouTube videos. Although her team does its best to “support every child in a loving, kind and compassionate way”, she feels that staff are too frightened to challenge what she sees as harmful practices: “We have chest binders worn in school, which is horrible. If a child was cutting, they would be straight in with a counsellor. Yet damaging developing breast tissue goes unquestioned. It’s a gross failure in terms of child protection.” (continues)
www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

these comments really do remind me of a conspiracy theory

People with gender dysphoria exist. People who identify as trans but don't have gender dysphoria exist. People who have detransitioned exist.

This was broadcast by SVT, Sweden's national public broadcaster:

www.svtplay.se/video/22035454/uppdrag-granskning/uppdrag-granskning-sasong-20-the-trans-train

If you doubt their credentials, this is how SVT approach progressive issues:

In what was described as an effort to make television series aimed at children and family less sexist, SVT has been changing genders of certain fictional characters (usually anthropomorphic non-human objects) in such series it imported from outside Sweden, a practice that began in 2013.[17][18] For example, in South Korean-Chinese-American animated series Super Wings, the gender of a red airplane named Jett was switched from male to female in Swedish version.

Obviously people who describe themselves as trans exist. What doesn't necessarily follow is that their interpretation of how sex and "gender" work is correct. There is a current thread about the word "valid" that covers a lot of this ground.

Mail on Sunday by Sanchez Manning
November 2018

'School has SEVENTEEN children changing gender as teacher says vulnerable pupils are being 'tricked' into believing they are the wrong sex'
(extract)
"An astonishing 17 pupils at a single British school are in the process of changing gender, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

Most of the youngsters undergoing the transformation are autistic, according to a teacher there, who said vulnerable children with mental health problems were being ‘tricked’ into believing they are the wrong sex.

The whistleblower says few of the transgender children are suffering from gender dysphoria – the medical term for someone who feels they were born in the wrong body – but are just easily influenced, latching on to the mistaken belief they are the wrong sex as a way of coping with the problems caused by autism.

Earlier this year, The Mail on Sunday revealed that a third of youngsters referred to the NHS’s only gender identity clinic for children showed ‘moderate to severe autistic traits’.

It means that 150 autistic teenagers were given puberty blocker drugs which stop the body maturing.

The teacher says she felt compelled to speak out to protect pupils, many of whom she believes could already be taking the powerful drugs and may go on to have life-changing surgery.

She believes schools and some politicians have swallowed ‘hook, line and sinker’ a politically-correct ‘fallacy’ peddled by a powerful transgender lobby.

She has asked The Mail on Sunday to conceal her identity for fear of dismissal after almost 20 years as a teacher, But in a shocking interview, the woman, who we shall call Carol, tells how:

She was advised to keep parents and other teachers in the dark if a pupil claimed to be transgender;

Older pupils at her school who changed gender ‘groomed’ younger, mainly autistic students to do the same;

One autistic teenager is soon to have a double mastectomy;

Pupils who say they were born the wrong sex mimic transgender YouTube stars Carol believes are partly to blame for convincing vulnerable children they have gender dysphoria." (continues)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6401593/Whistleblower-teacher-makes-shocking-claim-autistic.html

At my harshest, this, this is the result of closing the mental asylums in the 80's. As much as I would feel inclined to blame the parents, I have to question much of society today. For the sake of tolerance and inclusivity all common sense has just been thrown aside! Every value our society adhered to, and adhered to for good reason, has been removed. I'm glad my kids are adults and I silently hope they remain childless unless they suddenly become filthy rich.

Imagine if they started telling people with Body Dysmorphic Disorder " oh yeah it's OK Susan I can see that you think your nose is absolutely hideous so let's get you some surgery for that and make you feel better. Oh you don't like your lips too? No problem we'll get something done about that too because we want you to be your authentic self"

I've read as much as I can and I do understand the concerns about children regretting the decision in the process.

The Safeguarding issues go beyond children identified as transgender. Schools Youth Groups etc are being lobbied to teach gender ideology to children.

December 22nd 2018 Times article by Janice Turner:
'Trans ideologists are spreading cod science
Those who defend controversial charity’s right to a £500,000 lottery grant should really listen to what it is preaching'
(extract)
"Are you a Princess Barbie jelly-baby who likes frilly dresses, high heels and takes ages to get ready? Or a GI Joe jelly-baby who wears boots and functional clothing? Did you know that your preference for pink sparkles or muddy sports isn’t down to societal expectations of boys and girls. No, it’s written in your chromosomes. And that’s science.

Well, science according to Mermaids, the charity for trans children, in a presentation understood to be given to thousands of teachers, health workers, police and politicians, and part-funded by the Department for Education.

I listened to a recording of this bizarre 90-minute training lecture and wish others could too. Particularly those who pride themselves on rationality and evidence-based thinking: atheists, fans of Richard Dawkins and Ben Goldacre’s Bad Science; those incensed by climate change deniers on TV or creationists in schools; the same people who are tweeting #istandwithmermaids because the Big Lottery Fund is reviewing, in the light of an outcry, its decision to award them a £500,000 grant.

On tape the Mermaids trainer tells us that humans don’t come in two sexes, male and female, sperm and ovum: “Most people still think that way,” she says airily. “But what we know now, thanks to advances in science, is that the human race has up to 42 different sets of chromosomes.”

Biological sex is on a spectrum, she says, like skin tone and (seriously) bra size. A person’s “gender identity jelly baby” has nothing to do with how we are raised: it is inside you at birth. You know you are a man because you walk like a man and like “manly” things. A listener questions why this lecture is based upon stereotypes and is told “you’re going too clever”. (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-ideologists-are-spreading-cod-science-m8n0pdbq3?shareToken=eb2c06153578d29f71c393769844ab17

The Mermaids' training session was for teachers & recorded by Michael Conroy.

Imherefornow Sat 22-Dec-18
Here are the links to the transcripts thanks to a wonderful mumsnet collaboration. Share as you will "

docs.google.com/document/d/1NDOMlo2aEpBl2ySfKdEWCb1H94tZciKiqUffjH1ku0Y/edit?usp=sharing

docs.google.com/document/d/1aeFV0T6j4PXvm1xZBS_50oSJYV-_gO8YMoFjKjNA_9Y/edit?usp=sharing

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3454658-recording-of-mermaids-training

Right - not only would that be terrible on the face of it, but the idea that it was a solution would have an effect beyond the individual.

And in some ways we can even see that a bit, it's more and more common for people to talk about cosmetic procedures and such being about showing your real self. Sometimes including rather extreme ones.

The Safeguarding issues go beyond children identified as transgender. Schools Youth Groups etc are being lobbied to teach gender ideology to children.

Current thread about important court case:

OP MrsSnippyPants wrote:
Good news from Safe Schools Alliance
"We are delighted to announce that a high court judge has looked at the case against Oxfordshire County Council (including their defence) and found that it is arguable that their Trans Inclusion Toolkit is unlawful. The case will therefore proceed to a full trial later this year.

We understand that the Director of Children's Services and the head of the Council's legal department who fully supported the implementation of the kit (which was reviewed & approved by Oxfordshire Safeguarding Children's Board) have either left or are in the process of leaving.

This case is of crucial national importance. If the court decides in favour of the 13 year old girl who is taking legal action, other toolkits and resources that have similar elements, and are supported by Allsorts, Stonewall, and others are likely to also be unlawful.

All the background and press coverage can be found at safeschoolsallianceuk.net We would like to thank the teenager for taking this step to protect the safety, dignity and privacy of all girls."

See their Facebook and Twitter accounts for details."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3884089-Good-news-from-Safe-Schools-Alliance

Tracy Shaw from Safe School Alliance interviewed by Posie Parker explains the scope of the Safeguarding issues in schools: