Non-binary from a gender critical perspective

[Babolat]

How is non-binary understood from a gender critical perspective? I’m getting tied up in knots trying to get my head round it.

It's understood as a load of cobblers.

If non binary is a thing then most people are it.

Very few people identify 100% with all the stereotypes for their sex.

I find it all very confusing.

'Non binary' is people who know they don't fit into the stereotype boxes but think other people should.

Gender critical is wanting to remove those boxes ... everyone be themselves without daft labelling.

What's confusing you? There doesn't seem much to understand about it tbh.

What specifically are you confused about?

gender-critical understanding of gender - concepts of gender are inherently oppressive to all. no person should be expected to think, feel or act in a particular way because of their sex.

non-binary understanding of gender - there are specific ways that men and women think, feel and act and neither set of expectations fit with me as an individual so I must therefore be neither a man nor a woman.

I think these two positions are mutually incompatible - it is impossible to accept both positions as being based in truth.

You can only believe in non-binary if you believe in the existence of a gender binary. As a gender-critical person, I don't believe that gender is binary.
Sex is binary. Gender is a meaningless construct that needs to be challenged and crushed.

Non-binary: just like you but more special.

Narcissists.

It's like saying "My race is neither black nor white". Tone-deaf.
Implies that there exists a binary for genders which is apparently quite an offensive thing to do.

No one is capable of fully complying with the sex role stereotypes that make up the binary genders. So technically everyone is non binary.

Sex, on the other hand, is simply a physical reality shared by most creatures on the planet.

Interesting. So is gender critical the same as gender abolitionist?
I am a gender abolitionist. To me, gender is a social construct built along the binary of sex purely to justify and perpetuate the oppression of women. The whole gender spectrum, many genders ideology is merely the creation of more social constructs and does not stop or affect sex based oppression. It only further perpetuates and in some cases worsens sex based oppression of women.

There is also no such thing as an innate gender or “feeling” like a gender. That’s just matching yourself to a construct much the same way you’d take a personality quiz.

The only way to fully liberate women is to eliminate the entire concept of gender. Abolish it entirely. Then everyone is free to be how they want and be treated the same.

We’re all non-binary because the gender binary is not real.

Sex, on the other hand, is real. There is a male/female binary that we all (apart from a tiny number if intersex people) fit into. How you identify beyond that is entirely up to you.

I agree that non-binary is the most difficult to understand part of this, because it makes SO little sense

According to survey stuff I've seen (which matches up with my own experience) "non-binaries" tend to be young females who are not at all mentally well. They have significantly more mental health problems than trans

I THINK from what I've seen that it is basically a denial of the existence of objective reality - it is people saying "I can't bear to think of myself as either female or male, so that means that I am not, because sex is in the mind and everyone is whatever sex they feel they are"

They often disavow with great feeling that it is anything to do with gender norms

How anyone could sincerely think that the world is in their mind is beyond me

So is gender critical the same as gender abolitionist?

No because the GC perspective is that gender is nonsense and the non-binary perspective is that it's really important.

Otherwise, how would you know that you're more special that the GC lot?

I know an awful lot of very well educated and intelligent people personally who are fully on board with "boys do X" and "girls do Y". When one of their sons does Y, they don't take it as evidence that the above postion is a nonsense, they take it as evidence that gender is set in stone because, if it weren't, their son wouldn't be able to do something that was outside of it..!

Now that is an utter nonsense!

Non-binary is a nonsensical label for people who like to think they are very different and more special than others, when in fact they are not.

You don't need a silly label to give yourself permission to wear whatever clothes you like, style your hair as you please or engage in whatever hobbies and activities that interest you. Humans have been doing this for millennia and we live in an era where people are at liberty more than ever to be themselves.

Ironically, a lot of non-binary people seem very unimaginative as they have similar hairstyles and looks - hardly a ringing endorsement of how different and special they all are.

Non-binary: I don't fit in these boxes of stereotypes, so I need a new box for me.

Gender-critical: These boxes are bollocks, let's just get rid of them instead of adding more.

What @mucklowe said. (Great name btw - I'm a bit in love with Kurtan for inexplicable reasons )

Let's imagine what non-binary could be to make sense. It would involve non-binary identified people acknowledging their sex, that they're male or female, and acknowledging that their identity is built on having some aspects of their personality which do not align with the gender stereotypes for their sex.

Expressed in clear terms non-binary would fade away like the morning mist. It would be clear that there isn't actually anything there beyond how people are in general. Because of this, non-binary needs to be formulated in vague and mystical terms.

my critical perspectivs is "yea, whatever"

I see it more as evolution of language.

Female age 35+ who does not fit with typical gender stereotype = butch

Female under 35 who does not fit with typical gender stereotype = non binary

Non stereotype male age 35+ = effeminate

Non stereotype male under 35 = non binary

I don't have a gender. I have a sex. I also don't conform to sex stereotyping of what is expected of a woman. For example- Sometimes I wear dresses and make up, most of the time I dress in what I find comfortable and don't bother with make up. Sometimes I shave my legs, sometimes I let those leg hairs grow and grow.

I am my own person with my own mind. I don't require or desire a label. I only really need one word to describe me and that is woman.

My DD? She loves pink and unicorns, glitter, playing with makeup. I don't actively encourage or discourage- I let her have fun and enjoy the things that make her happy. She's very much her own person. The only thing I tell her is that it's okay for boys to like the things she does and it's okay for girls to like what she would perceive a boy does.

I see it more as evolution of language.

It's not really just that though. Some 'nonbinaries' want to deny the reality of binary sex, and some (particularly young women) are permanently harming their bodies in ways 'butch' women didn't.

As others have said, it relies on gender stereotypes (ie the gender binary) being real. Otherwise it makes no sense.
Either the majority of men and women have an innate gender identity that is the gender stereotype of their sex (ie 'cis') and a few people don't (non binary/trans), or everyone is non-binary because innate gender stereotyping is sexist nonsense (gender critical).

I see it as the obvious result of the persistent push for ‘gender’ stereotyping. And that this has been perpetuated through media, entertainment and consumer goods. I mean, what good was ever going to come of women getting breast enlargements. Confidence??? Only to a point. Quite likely the ability to attract male gaze was built into that ‘confidence’. And so it continues.

Gender stereotyping is toxic. A ‘butch’ looking woman is still a woman. And effeminate man is still a man. The point is why does there have to be this labeling?