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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Robert Webb in the Times

158 replies

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 12/04/2020 09:33

Interesting interview with Robert Webb in the Times. I had no idea he'd been so ill.
He talks about the pile on he got for criticising Mermaids last year and whether he regrets it (no) and says that you can't acknowledge that there are competing rights without being framed as a bigot.
He also says it had real life professional consequences (which I see one of our monitors is already gloating about on twitter)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d63efd46-7982-11ea-b535-542bda4e2a5f?shareToken

OP posts:
SecondGentleman · 15/04/2021 11:39

Jesse Thorn is off his rocker.

It's awful parenting to tell a child that they are a boy/girl and therefore they must express themselves in a certain way.

It's worse to tell a child that the way that they express themselves determines whether or not they are to be sent down a lifelong medical pathway that they are too young to understand the implications of.

I'm glad that Robert clearly has no patience with either of these. I'm off to buy his books now.

Datun · 15/04/2021 11:39

When she enters puberty, she'll start taking a pill that prevents testosterone from changing her body.

You'll have to go to court first mate.

WhatKatyDidNot · 15/04/2021 11:39

The interviewers child came out as trans when they were in kindergarten

As a dissenter on the idea of any such thing as an innate gender identity, the idea of the vegan cat springs to mind.

SunsetBeetch · 15/04/2021 11:40

@transbadger

I'm glad this thread was bumped. Just gained some massive respect for Robert Webb.

🦡🌈🤍

Oh me too Smile
nauticant · 15/04/2021 11:43

From the twitter thread ItsAllGoingToBeFine linked to:

twitter.com/JesseThorn/status/1377288524521558022

Read the comments. People each have their own line and many see that Thorn has overstepped it horribly.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/04/2021 11:45

I forget to add this tweet from the thread Hmm

I've been grateful to have the partnership of my wife @TheresaThorn. She wrote this beautiful book which explains gender in language any kid can understand. It's so important for kids (cis or trans) to know adults' assumptions don't define them, they do. [Link to purchase book]

transbadger · 15/04/2021 11:46

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I forget to add this tweet from the thread Hmm

I've been grateful to have the partnership of my wife @TheresaThorn. She wrote this beautiful book which explains gender in language any kid can understand. It's so important for kids (cis or trans) to know adults' assumptions don't define them, they do. [Link to purchase book]

Crass.

transbadger · 15/04/2021 11:48

@nauticant

From the twitter thread ItsAllGoingToBeFine linked to:

twitter.com/JesseThorn/status/1377288524521558022

Read the comments. People each have their own line and many see that Thorn has overstepped it horribly.

Damn. Won't open for me. Glad to hear people are commenting as such though.

nauticant · 15/04/2021 11:53

They're a bucket of iced water over his gaslighty thread. A joy to read.

SunsetBeetch · 15/04/2021 12:01

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

This thread by Thorn is illuminating,:

twitter.com/JesseThorn/status/1377287133921116160?s=19

Excerpts:

When she started kindergarten, my wife was bathing her. An adult friend of ours had just come out as trans, and my wife mentioned that not all girls have vaginas and not all boys have penises.

Why would you tell your small child that?! Why?!

Talking to trans friends, I learned why it's so important to clearly tell kids that private parts don't determine gender. Little kids often don't know what "trans" is, so they just assume... well... that they're broken. Give kids some language and they can tell you who they are.

She socially transitioned in kindergarten. She had girl play clothes already that she wore at home when she felt like it, but my wife took her to Target to pick out some clothes. She chose a pink and purple My Little Pony dress.

We still had to (have to) be on guard all the time. Every new care situation (camp, sports, babysitter, friends' parents) had to get a briefing. We had to check every room for jerks. Because being misgendered, or forced to explain yourself is traumatic for a young kid.

When she enters puberty, she'll start taking a pill that prevents testosterone from changing her body. This treatment is safe and reversible, and is also used for kids with "precocious puberty" (puberty that starts too early).

Trans kids take hormone blockers because while stated gender identities are stable starting from the time kids can express them, a ten or eleven-year-old's brain is still growing by leaps and bounds. So long-term decisions about bodies are postponed a bit.

When our kid is in her teens, she'll decide how she feels about her body. She can do nothing and have a "boy's" puberty. She can take hormones and go through a "girl's" puberty. When she's a young adult, she can (if she choses) have surgical interventions.

Oof he's getting a lot of pushback there. More so than arse pats, by the looks of it.
SunsetBeetch · 15/04/2021 12:02

Oh, cross post with nauticant

Datun · 15/04/2021 12:03

Are we absolutely certain this child is real?

It's all rather glib.

Datun · 15/04/2021 12:04

And yes, no-one is buying it.

The tweets from this man are not coming across as anything other than self serving. Everyone sees it.

transbadger · 15/04/2021 12:04

@nauticant

They're a bucket of iced water over his gaslighty thread. A joy to read.

Oh it's working now! What a joy!

This tweet of his made me laugh life crazy:

We went to learn about gender and kids - I mean I'm from San Francisco, grew up with a trans neighbor. My wife went to Sarah Lawrence.

Wonderful stuff. Beyond satire.

🦡🌈🤍

CrossPurposes · 15/04/2021 12:10

Thorn's child was so young that they wanted their new name to be Grease but somehow the child's parents knew they meant Grace. I wonder what else they have chosen to interpret for the child...

Datun · 15/04/2021 12:11

This response says it all.

If I'm reading correctly, girl is defined by not liking haircuts, liking Baloo in a hula skirt, a pink and purple My Little Pony dress, and saying "I'm a girl with a penis" in response to the mother's prompting.

Jesus. He's not an unintelligent man. Can't he see what is as clear as day to everyone else?

Lumene · 15/04/2021 12:11

Robert Webb comes across as thoughtful, considered and self-effacing.

Owen Jones... does not.

transbadger · 15/04/2021 12:14

Understanding whether you are a boy or a girl and that this is an immutable state is actually a developmental stage in childhood.

People like Jesse Thorn are literally disrupting their child's development.

Helmetbymidnight · 15/04/2021 12:15

And yes, no-one is buying it.

But 55 k people liked it...

Datun · 15/04/2021 12:20

@Helmetbymidnight

And yes, no-one is buying it.

But 55 k people liked it...

I know. Depressing. But they stand as much chance as effectively articulating why, as he does.

Which is zero.

NecessaryScene1 · 15/04/2021 12:35

my wife mentioned that not all girls have vaginas and not all boys have penises.

When she enters puberty, she'll start taking a pill that prevents testosterone from changing her body.

Okay, maybe my mind isn't highly trained enough, but if in this universe girls can have penises, then why shouldn't those girls go through a natural "girl with penis" puberty?

Why are the girls with penises and boys with vaginas being singled out for unproven medical treatment?

transbadger · 15/04/2021 12:40

@NecessaryScene1

my wife mentioned that not all girls have vaginas and not all boys have penises.

When she enters puberty, she'll start taking a pill that prevents testosterone from changing her body.

Okay, maybe my mind isn't highly trained enough, but if in this universe girls can have penises, then why shouldn't those girls go through a natural "girl with penis" puberty?

Why are the girls with penises and boys with vaginas being singled out for unproven medical treatment?

"Some girls have penises."

"I'm a girl with a penis."

"Better chop it off then."

Ah yes... I get it now...

🦡🌈🤍

Sophoclesthefox · 15/04/2021 12:54

If someone told me a story that started with a conversation with a toddler in the bath about the configuration of an adult friend’s genitals, my first reaction would not be to shower that person with praise for their bravery and insight.

andyoldlabour · 15/04/2021 12:55

Someone pointed out on the Jesse Thorn Twitter thread, that having a trans child is the latest fashion accessory.
I fully agree with that analogy.

SunsetBeetch · 15/04/2021 13:40

andyoldlabour I do think it could be used by some to signal how "progressive" they are. Very bizarre to talk about girls having penises etc to a child of that age. Children are very pliable. I hope to god they are genuinely doing the best for their child, but it does worry me a lot.

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