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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Robert Webb in the Times

158 replies

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 12/04/2020 09:33

Interesting interview with Robert Webb in the Times. I had no idea he'd been so ill.
He talks about the pile on he got for criticising Mermaids last year and whether he regrets it (no) and says that you can't acknowledge that there are competing rights without being framed as a bigot.
He also says it had real life professional consequences (which I see one of our monitors is already gloating about on twitter)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d63efd46-7982-11ea-b535-542bda4e2a5f?shareToken

OP posts:
SunsetBeetch · 14/04/2021 21:54

He's such a decent bloke.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/04/2021 21:55

Holy Zombies, Batman!

SunsetBeetch · 14/04/2021 22:03

Wow I hadn't even realised.

Why?

Hmm
Melroses · 14/04/2021 22:07

maximumfun.org/episodes/bullseye-with-jesse-thorn/david-mitchell-and-robert-webb/

More Robert Webb news - interviewer declares his kindergarten aged child transgender at 42 minutes.

ValancyRedfern · 14/04/2021 22:26

He's always been gender critical. He retweeted Lily Maynard excellent article about her daughter several years ago. He never recanted, just laid low until the Janice Turner retweet years later. His book is fantastic. He totally and utterly gets it.

ValancyRedfern · 14/04/2021 22:27

Sorry didn't realise this was an old thread. Always worth recommending How Not to be a Boy though.

Diaryofamadwoman · 14/04/2021 22:37

That section of the interview was an awkward listen - very unprofessional of the interviewer.

Love Robert Webb.

Melroses · 14/04/2021 22:38

Yes it was very awkward. He was ambushed.

Diaryofamadwoman · 14/04/2021 22:41

He stood his ground with grace

Melroses · 14/04/2021 22:48

Yes he is so polite and reasoned.

ArabellaScott · 14/04/2021 22:50

Ambushed by an interviewer with an agenda.

nauticant · 14/04/2021 23:00

That is remarkably manipulative and dishonest. In other words Standard Operating Procedure for a trans activist. Still, Robert Webb did well in the face of such an ambush.

Melroses · 14/04/2021 23:05

It was all about the interviewer. After all the stuff about him being ill and heart stuff that they talked about and had happened since.

If I was famous I wouldn't go on that. (Sorry no idea who Jesse Thorne is).

nauticant · 14/04/2021 23:16

Predictably Owen Jones retweets hoping for a pile-on:

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1382428989386588162

So far he's attracted some bigoteers but he's not yet getting the traction with this one. It seems a number of those who listened didn't like what they heard.

risefromyourgrave · 15/04/2021 07:12

I love Robert Webb, he seems like a fab bloke with actual integrity. Anyone who is on Twitter please give him some support at the moment. And his recent book Come Again is really good!

Sophoclesthefox · 15/04/2021 07:25

@Lisz

Yikes.
I’m curious, what was the motivation for bouncing a year old thread with a one word post?
FlyPassed · 15/04/2021 07:26

Yikes! That was absolutely EXCRUTIATING. I only listened to the end part where Robert talked about his near fatal heart condition and then the host asked about his Mermaids tweet from 2018.

Robert did well to remain dignified in the face of such blatant emotional manipulation. I did chuckle at Roberts audible shrug and 'yeah, right' tone of voice when he said 'thanks' at the end of the interview.

For those who haven't listened, the host has a 'trans child' who 'came out' while still in kindergarten. I don't know how the host thought Robert would respond. Recant, maybe? But he's written a whole book about the bollox gender rules applied to boys and men!

AnyOldPrion · 15/04/2021 07:49

That was awful in the interview. Bring Robert Webb and David Mitchell in for an interview about their series, give space for Robert Webb to talk about some incredibly serious life events that have occurred within the past two years which have obviously had a huge impact and then ambush on something he retweeted before all of that happened. Fucking rude, if nothing else.

As others have said, all about the interviewer and his own (probably uncomfortable from all the silences) personal feelings about child transition. I found myself wondering if Robert Webb’s opinion was too challenging for his carefully built protective wall which is shutting out all the cognitive dissonance he would otherwise be experiencing. That’s how it came over.

At least Robert Webb was very honest. The politics surrounding this is not something he has kept up with, and no wonder, given the circumstances.

And anyone taking Robert Webb to task in the circumstances is being ridiculous. Going through a life-threatening situation and coming to terms with all the feelings of mortality is enough for anyone to cope with.

Jones suggesting he crumbled is pathetic. He didn’t crumble: had he done so, he would have acquiesced to the pressure and recanted. Instead he stated the truth: that given current circumstances, he hasn’t kept up with the situation, can’t remember the specifics and doesn’t want to get drawn back in right now. And who can blame him? Nobody sane would do so.

BraveBananaBadge · 15/04/2021 08:29

Jesse Thorn was discussed on here recently after a very long Twitter thread on his trans child - if that's a recent interview (which it seems to be) the conflict between the two viewpoints was bound to occur, but still. Haven't heard it yet- might give it a listen later.

nauticant · 15/04/2021 08:40

It is well worth a listen. A reminder that either you go along with trans activist thinking or you're the enemy.

Thorn took to twitter over this and got the kind of support he was aiming for:

twitter.com/JesseThorn/status/1381974104593473542

NancyDrawed · 15/04/2021 08:47

JT: 'Is there anything that's been left unsaid that you...'
RW: 'No'
JT: '..would like to say?'
RW: .....
JT 'Okay'

I didn't listen to the whole interview, but the end section was an uncomfortable listen - it seems that the need for external acceptance/validation of gender nonconformity goes beyond the trans individual.

This is a part of the ideology I am hugely confused by. If someone is so sure of their personal sense of self, whether that is the norm for their sex in their particular culture or not, anyone else's opinion on the matter should be irrelevant.

BraveBananaBadge · 15/04/2021 09:04

That new Twitter thread is quite frightening, nauticant. "We gave them the opportunity to recant... ETHICS INNIT, ETHICS!!"

It's absolute bollocks and totally unfair on David Mitchell (see also what Glinner has said about the effect his involvement in the Father Ted musical is having on Arthur Matthew's and Neil Hannon, which he described as their 'pension'). This wouldn't happen over any other issue. Why the stranglehold? (Rhetorical question, obv...)

OldCrone · 15/04/2021 09:04

The interviewer kept talking about 'gender nonconforming kids' as though they were something other than completely unremarkable, normal children. How have we got to a place where children who are gender nonconforming need 'support' from specialist charities?

AnyOldPrion · 15/04/2021 09:06

I didn't listen to the whole interview, but the end section was an uncomfortable listen - it seems that the need for external acceptance/validation of gender nonconformity goes beyond the trans individual.

This is the whole point/problem, isn’t it.

From what Jesse asked, he was basically saying

“When my child was diagnosed as trans, I was so ignorant on the subject that I relied on those charities, who reassured me that it was all fine and that I was doing the right thing.

But if you are correct and those charities were wrong, that means we might have done harm to our child. We can’t afford for them to be wrong.”

And perhaps add in there a tinge of “There it was in the back of my mind the whole time. A feeling that this wasn’t quite right and I didn’t listen and now I’m so far invested that any challenge is almost unbearable.”

If he was fully confident that he’d done the right thing and that it was all fine, then Robert Webb’s opinion would mean nothing to him and he would dismiss it easily.

The fact that this is so emotive for Jesse Thorne is very suggestive of cognitive dissonance. He was basically asking Robert Webb to take it back, presumably because he both has some respect for Robert Webb’s opinion and at the same time can’t afford to.

I wonder if we will ever reach a place where these heavily invested parents will stop being angry with the world and start being angry with the doctors. I guess that will depend on whether their children end up living long and prosperous lives in their medicalised identity, or whether it all falls apart.

The angriest people, in my experience, are generally those who feel guilty or worried they might be getting something wrong and can’t bear anything that challenges their position. They can often lash out at whoever is nearest. I think that’s exactly what we’re dealing with here.

BraveBananaBadge · 15/04/2021 09:37

I tried looking back over Thorn's Twitter for the thread mentioned above and gave up. The man seems to Tweet every inconsequential thought all day long. Therein possibly lies the problem!