Please can we talk about using the name Karen as an insult?

[NiceKaren]

I'm seeing the name Karen being used as an insult all over social media. It started as a meme, but in the last few days I've seen 'Karen' being blamed for panic buying, refusing to self-isolate and general selfishness. My name is Karen and in these tricky times it feels really unpleasant to see my name being used this way. It feels sexist, ageist and most likely classist too. Now I'm seeing it on MN as well and it makes me so sad. I can't help my name and while I used to laugh it off, I'm feeling quite upset by it tonight. Why do people do this?

I suppose I'm just posting for solidarity and wondering whether there is any point in trying to call this sort of thing out? Before, I felt it was just me being precious or unable to take a joke but now it feels quite personal and ugly.

And yet it is to save the lives of middle aged and older women that the entire world economy has been put on hold for the foreseeable future

absolute shocker, not just completely wrong but woman-hating too. what kind of person wrote this?

I hate to inform you, but I see the halting of normal activity as a good thing. Protecting people as a good thing. The funnelling of resources as a good thing. Nobody hates you. Nobody hates Karen, or Karens. Without the spectre of hatred though, the FWR flavour of feminism grinds to a halt, so I do see why you need to perpetuate it. Carry on.

I’m getting my popcorn. Twist away.

Protecting people as a good thing.

Oh its 'people' now?

Because before, you said quite clearly that the economy was being put on hold for women. Middle aged and older women to be precise.

I have a close relation called Karen, the loveliest sweetest person I know. This makes me sad too.

Me too. She was named after the wonderful Karen Carpenter, who has one of the most beautiful, most sad voices of all time, IMO.

Although she considered herself to be a ‘drummer who sang’

I think I might sign my DD up for drum lessons when the virus thing is over. It’s time to make Karen cool again.

I read the death rate for men was significantly higher than the death rate for women anyway

A more accurate comparison would be if when that show was broadcast men of a certain age were routinely called "Alf" by people as a put down. But that didn't happen, did it?

You're right, it's not the same and that didn't happen.
But, a lot of men of a certain age and character did, and still do, get referred to as "a bit of a Victor Meldrew".
The Alf Garnett character wasn't a stereotype of a certain type of man, Victor Meldrew is.

It’s time to make Karen cool again.

Agreed. Here's Karen Allen - Raiders of the Lost Ark

Karen O

Singer from the Yeah Yeah Yeahs

And there are loads of examples of fictional, larger than life characters - male and female - who exhibit specific patterns of behaviour and who are held up for ridicule: Captain Mainwaring, Victor Meldrew, Margot Leadbetter, Hyacinth Bucket, Mrs Bennett.
'A Karen' is not a character - that's the point. She doesn't have a personality or a face or even a second name. She is a blank screen onto which people project their dislikes and prejudices.

This Karen had a sublime voice. I saw the Carpenters in concert many many years ago:

Ooops - missed DuLang's post upthread.

Karen Elsen

Iconic 90s ‘Supermodel’ and musician

m.youtube.com/watch?v=kthNUWUZQyY

*Elson’

Karen Hauer, Venezuelan champion Mambo dancer and Strictly pro

m.youtube.com/watch?v=p0fMH3hEVLM

m.youtube.com/watch?v=_aunQVvEQyw

m.youtube.com/watch?v=HH6ha5vXwBE

A headteacher I worked for loved to employ older women.

He told me that all else being equal he found that younger men, were keen and ambitious and prepared to work extra hours and take on extra responsibilities, BUT older woman had already done the most difficult thing they would ever do - giving birth and bringing up children - and that nothing fazed them anymore, they could deal with any situation calmly and rationally.

Of course it all depends on the person - there are plenty of calm, rational younger men (well ... maybe not plenty, but some), and ambitious older women, but he did have a knack of finding very good people to work at his school.

My late husband's bame was Robert. Think how often the vernacular version is used in the way Karen's is, but to cite males collectively. Since he died last year, every time I see it used in Mumsnet threads, which is quite often, though not on FWR so much, it feels horrible, hurtful etc.

I know I am absolutely being daft but unfortunately an emotional response is not that easy to control.

I know a couple of toddler Roberts, the name is definitely making a come back, Biology, so it won’t get stuck with association of a certain age group for long.

Sorry for your loss

What a nasty little git.

It's definitely a poke at women of a certain age/demographic.
It could easily have been my name as I'm this generation too.
All the Karen's I know in real life are lovely splendid women - who are no doubt equally pissed off!
It will pass. But if you are called Karen, it must be really annoying!

Just another ...

Biologyisreal, I've never heard the name, 'Robert', referred to in a derogatory way. It's a good name, strong and fairly ordinary - Rob or Bob are nice diminutives.

Roger, on the other hand, I could understand.....

Sorry for your loss. My late husband was called, "John". Can't get more ordinary than that but nothing wrong with it at all.

Also confused about Robert being derogatory!

I have a Robert in my life, he’s ace.

Robert must have been a very popular name 120 years ago.Both my grandmother and her sister were married to men called Robert, which had also been the name of their fathers.
Sorry to derail the thread.
I wonder who the equilivant of Karen will be in fifty to sixty years from now?

ive never seen robert used in the same way as karen...

theres definitely a class element in the karen thing too - its a w/c lower m/c name- easy target.