Please can we talk about using the name Karen as an insult?

[NiceKaren]

I'm seeing the name Karen being used as an insult all over social media. It started as a meme, but in the last few days I've seen 'Karen' being blamed for panic buying, refusing to self-isolate and general selfishness. My name is Karen and in these tricky times it feels really unpleasant to see my name being used this way. It feels sexist, ageist and most likely classist too. Now I'm seeing it on MN as well and it makes me so sad. I can't help my name and while I used to laugh it off, I'm feeling quite upset by it tonight. Why do people do this?

I suppose I'm just posting for solidarity and wondering whether there is any point in trying to call this sort of thing out? Before, I felt it was just me being precious or unable to take a joke but now it feels quite personal and ugly.

Your experience doesn’t negate the fact that the Karen meme is sexist and ageist.

Everything is sexist and ageist according to mumsnet.

It's been used for years to insult boomer women. My mums Karen so it does grate a bit but there's not much you can do.

It's not classist as 'Karen' is regarded as an annoying, entitled middle class white woman - hence why meme culture picked it up.

Chiyo - you know that you are on the feminist board?

And does any of that make it acceptable chiton?

Chiyo. Spell check thinks it knows better.

I didn’t realise being a feminist meant we couldn’t disagree with other females. Or is this some sort of weird echo chamber where we must follow a script of what is acceptable?

Yep I find it slightly offensive to see one name signifying anything negative too. I bet not one of those people would say it if their own name was Karen.

Chiyo666

I think you miss the point. Those behaviors DO need to be called out.

However, I see these behaviors you have mentioned being done by a range of people. Younger, older, men and women. Let’s not kid ourselves that these anti-social behaviors are done by people who would fit a ‘Karen’ typing.

Is there a correlation with being older meaning (for many of us anyway) that far fewer shits are given about what other people think of us, and the desire to rectify that by putting us back into our "place"?

I meant to add in my previous post. My friend from school who was called Karen was black. It's not only a white person's name.

I completely get it, Chiyo. It's not complicated. But as you ought to be able to see from your own example, this is an American cultural stereotype that is now being imported in the UK where it doesn't really apply. And it is used so broadly that it just becomes "shitty older women" and then that becomes "shitty women".

If you have a problem with those behaviours being called out and shamed then that’s an issue with you

Sounds to me like 'Karen' is simply a dumping ground for everything that annoys people about other people. Whilst everyone is currently trying to be 'nice' to each other; virtual signalling about how caring, socially responsible, and compassionate they are......There is still the darker shadow of personal irritation, personality clashes and downright animosity towards the foibles of others. Human nature innit'. None are immune.

Whenever you call out ageism on Mumsnet (and this is only the latest manifestation) you'll get some people denying it. But it's still worth challenging I think, as a lot of this kind of stuff is done unconsciously and I think many people do think it over and take the point, even if they don't say anything.

I always think of Karen from that tv show outnumbered. In that context it’s very fitting.

@NathanNathan

Of course there is also this Aunt Flo:

Cool as you like, and with a great theme tune.

Karen isn’t a person, it’s a collection of behaviours that have been embodied.

Embodied in a middle-aged woman. See why that's a problem?

Becky was always used to mean a working class Jewish girl, or at least that's how I always heard it used (by Jewish people, it's not a put down I don't think, more affectionate).
I think the problem is that you can't import these US memes to the UK, they don't translate. Karen in the UK is a very ordinary name for women over 40, so yes, using it as a shorthand to sneer at basically anything women in that age bracket might do is nasty and sexist.
And classist actually because everyone in the UK knows that Karen isn't a posh person's name.

You clearly don’t get it but whatever

I mean... right back at you...

just search twitter for #okkaren - it's rarely about the inconsiderate behaviour mentioned, and mainly people being mean about their mums.

Don't know about Karen but didn't Gordon Brown blame Sue after his run-in with Gillian Duffy?

Karen from Will & Grace.

I've seen this a lot and it's making me mad.

I'm going to start calling it out whenever I heAr this.

There's no equivalent man's name being used as far as I know 😡

I know a Karen who is 40 and she is lovely
It really annoys me too!

With respect, I don’t think I annoy every person on the planet due to my age, gender and race. So I’m not taking it personally. I don’t complain excessively or think my demographics make me the police, judge and jury over everyone else around. (That’s what this meme is about for me.)

Just like I didn’t sleep with the football team in highschool so when people made “Debbie does Dallas” jokes I didn’t take it personally.

Nor did I care when “Debbie Downer” was a popular thing. and I don’t recall a single person every telling anyone to knock it off when those two annoying uses of my name were thrown around.

So I agree with Chiyo actually. If you aren’t calling the police because a black man is having a bbq in the park, or constantly demanding a manager to get a low wage earner fired for not kissing your ass ~it’s not about you even if your name is Sharon, Karen or whatever.

Why is it Debbie downer though and not Darren downer?

Why was the man yelling at the fire service for shopping at Walmart called a Karen?

Go on any social media you can search (twitter and reddit are the two I can think of) and search for ‘Karen’ plenty of men doing things and being called a Karen. Why? Why aren’t they all daves? Or Eric’s?