Please can we talk about using the name Karen as an insult?

[NiceKaren]

I'm seeing the name Karen being used as an insult all over social media. It started as a meme, but in the last few days I've seen 'Karen' being blamed for panic buying, refusing to self-isolate and general selfishness. My name is Karen and in these tricky times it feels really unpleasant to see my name being used this way. It feels sexist, ageist and most likely classist too. Now I'm seeing it on MN as well and it makes me so sad. I can't help my name and while I used to laugh it off, I'm feeling quite upset by it tonight. Why do people do this?

I suppose I'm just posting for solidarity and wondering whether there is any point in trying to call this sort of thing out? Before, I felt it was just me being precious or unable to take a joke but now it feels quite personal and ugly.

Yet men who behave in exactly the same way don't have silly memes dedicated to them. They are just getting "re-imbursed" and then go happily on their way? Yeah, that's fair.

No, it isn't. "Karen" is clearly misogynistic. But, also: "Karen" calls out behaviours that aren't technically desirable in either sex. Self-entitlement and getting your knickers in a twist (also pretty sexist as an idiom, actually, seeing as "knickers" only ever refers to underwear for female humans ...) over trivial stuff are just generally petty and unpleasant behaviours in anyone. Yes, this technically includes 86-year-old ethnic minorities on disability benefits.

It's just that, as always, men are having an easier time being dicks on account of them having dicks, I suppose.

Self-entitlement and getting your knickers in a twist (also pretty sexist as an idiom, actually, seeing as "knickers" only ever refers to underwear for female humans ...) over trivial stuff are just generally petty and unpleasant behaviours in anyone

Who gets to decide what is "trivial"?

Kevin, on the other hand, implies a problematic socio-economic background. Kevin is undesirable because Kevin is poor. We might say it's because he's stupid or anti-social - but really what it boils down to is: Kevin is not from a naice family. He belongs to the great unwashed. And we all know what to expect from them, don't we? So, Kevin is inherent to Kevin.

In the UK, I think Karen could be changed to Kevin and the above would apply. Karen might not be stupid, but she's definitely not from a naice social class, QED how dare she complain?

People who share Karen memes would never say in real life that Karen is the chav who got above herself. But it's what they mean.

I’ve never heard Kevin used like that in the UK - but it sounds like you’re saying people are specifically being derogatory to men called Kevin, not calling men Kevin as a misandrist trope? That’s a bit different albeit still
unacceptable behaviour.

If someone said ‘he’s such a Kevin’ here (UK) I’d assume it was a reference to the Harry Enfield character Kevin the Teenager. I think referencing a specific person/character is a bit different than just assigning unflattering characteristics/stereotype to a name, and then using that to shut down and silence women.

Brenda has 2 associations for me - one is the ‘Brenda Line’ - a service the Samaritans provided in the 80s for telephone masturbators, to try and free up their helplines, staffed by older no-nonsense women who would listen dispassionately whilst the masturbators did their thing, and all used the pseudonym Brenda. The other is ‘Brenda from Bristol’, the real woman whose reaction to being told on local news there was an election (“another one!?!” in a broad West Country accent) went viral a few years ago, and came to represent the general public’s fatigue with Westminster.

But again associations with real people/characters is different from the recent Karen thing, which seems to have started online specifically to bully women.

I also, respect to previous poster as I understand your sensitivity, but I disagree with use of ‘Bob’ as a placeholder name in the example you have is comparable to the Karen memes either. It’s just a common name. There isn’t a trope that Bob is a paedophilic exhibitionist and it isn’t used to generally slur men of a specific generation.

"She's so far removed from actual hardship that she makes herself a pain in the arse for everyone else with trivial crap like not getting re-imbursed for service she wasn't pleased with..."

The same people saying this are most likely also the one who defended Sam Smith, because 'everyone's struggles are real and valid'. Hypocrites.

Of course MrGHardy! Older ‘cis’ women are supposed to put up and shut up, and prioritise everyone else’s problems above their own, like each individual woman is the whole world’s mother, didn’t you get the memo? You can’t expect [men, transwomen, nonbinary personages, genderqueer snowflakes, trans allies, other - write in description box]* to care about any issues other than their own now can you. They’re far too important. Obvs! Karen’s problem is she thinks she’s important when she’s so clearly not. Silly Karen.

older = if you might possibly look like you’re maybe at least 30, and/or you don’t believe in genderwang, because then you have T*F mindset anyway so become an old woman by default.

**delete as appropriate. Also note that transmen do not appear in this list. Because everyone forgets about them anyway, so they don’t matter either.

^^

Excellent post cwen

Oh dear, it looks like KarenAge38s other thread has been zapped. How sad for him.

My local group where people are discussing coronavirus mitigation strategies currently has multiple "OMG Karen" posts, because why let a pandemic get in the way of being a sexist prat?

Damn! I was having fun with the little fellow...

why let a pandemic get in the way of being a sexist prat?
Lol, why indeed. Let’s have an equal opportunities apocalypse shall we

I do need to formulate a short-ish response to Karen memes explaining the inherent misogyny and ageism in them in a simple and non-confrontational way. They’re so often used in an unconscious everyday sexism way. Like this one sent to me recently. It’s poking fun at the fast cat right, lockdown humour? But would it be as ‘funny’ if the name was Sam, or Emma, or Amy, or Chris, or Tom?

FAT CAT! Not fast. I doubt that cat is fast. Well, she might be. Let’s not get into fat-shaming our pets.

Arf Arf!!!

Well I am glad my name is really Deathraystare (not really)! . I don't particularly like my name and have slightly changed it.

Is it really deathraystar?

I’ve been thinking about this for a while now. I see a lot of “fuck off karen!” Comments after bemoaning whatever the previous behaviour was.

“Karen isn’t happy they don’t have wotsits in during a pandemic, Fuck off Karen”.

The whole silencing of women in this way just seems like an extension of the you know who’s who like to shut women down.

If you’re determined or outspoken And over 40 you’re now being openly told to fuck off but it’s ok because it’s just bantz and not for real 🙄 It doesn’t hurt anyone, it’s just a laugh.

I’m going to start asking for a full explanation of the ‘joke’ from now on. I can be just as irritating as the memes.

I can't believe how much this entire thread proves the point about "Karens." I truly thought this was satire at first.

Odfod

Yeah but Susan's are actually cool #koolkatsusan

Just had a gay man (queer he/him in bio) on Twitter call me a Karen, for pointing out lesbians tend to prefer women as partners rather than straight men. He's got a stereotypical pornified woman pic on his profile. No misogyny there then, s'all just the bantz! eyeroll

Like this one sent to me recently. It’s poking fun at the fast cat right, lockdown humour? But would it be as ‘funny’ if the name was Sam, or Emma, or Amy, or Chris, or Tom?

It would be totally the same. I've seen a few like this where it made no sense, no reference to a particular sex or a particular generation. I wonder if maybe some people just use the name Karen because they think it's a generic person?

I've just seen it used on another MN thread. Which is horrible, as it's just a way of shutting women up.

Karolina Żebrowska is an inveterate piss-taker!

"your typical Karen but she's a 1920s flapper"

if someone said ‘he’s such a Kevin’ here (UK) I’d assume it was a reference to the Harry Enfield character Kevin the Teenager. I think referencing a specific person/character is a bit different than just assigning unflattering characteristics/stereotype to a name.

A ‘Kev’ or a ‘Barry’ are extremely well known terms for a chav, well they certainly were in the 90s. I believe a ‘Ned’ is the Scottish equivalent (hence the films Neds).

Someone I've just deleted from facebook - someone who purports to be a feminist - has been posting a lot of memes about how the "Karen" meme isn't problematic, and that it's only "Karens" who object to being called "Karen", and it's wrong to analyse the meme let alone criticise its use.

What prompted the eventual deletion was the completely unironic sharing of a meme in which said something along the lines of "When we call you Karen, what we're calling you is cunt."

I wasn't aware that the debate over whether it's acceptable or misogynistic to refer to women as 'cunts' had been concluded one way or another, but apparently the libfems have decided for us.

When the people using "Karen" memes are openly admitting that they're using it as a pejorative synonym for a word used to strip women of our humanity and reduce us to a single reviled hole, it's pretty damned obvious we should be kicking up a stink about it.