Please can we talk about using the name Karen as an insult?

[NiceKaren]

I'm seeing the name Karen being used as an insult all over social media. It started as a meme, but in the last few days I've seen 'Karen' being blamed for panic buying, refusing to self-isolate and general selfishness. My name is Karen and in these tricky times it feels really unpleasant to see my name being used this way. It feels sexist, ageist and most likely classist too. Now I'm seeing it on MN as well and it makes me so sad. I can't help my name and while I used to laugh it off, I'm feeling quite upset by it tonight. Why do people do this?

I suppose I'm just posting for solidarity and wondering whether there is any point in trying to call this sort of thing out? Before, I felt it was just me being precious or unable to take a joke but now it feels quite personal and ugly.

They are not laughing at a particular woman named Karen, they are sneering at every woman over the age of 40

yes this!!!!

This horrible ageism has become pretty standard stuff now.....one of the prejudices that quite a number seem to feel free to espouse.

When you are in your twenties...being 40+ still seems like a long way off....but the older you get the more quickly time passes, and before you know it you are approaching 60.

Karen is the TA who mopped up your tears when you fell down in KS1.

Karen is the dental nurse who held your hand when you had your first check up.

Karen is the hairdresser who chopped off your orange bits when you bleached without reading the instructions (and didn't laugh once).

Karen is the lady you ran to in the park when you were scared by older boys.

In short, Karen is all of us. Especially now that it will be Karen ventilating you in the ER.

This. Karen is your cub leader, your Christmas dinner organiser, your tea stall helper and your lift giver.

The world needs Karen's.

In short, Karen is all of us. They are not laughing at a particular woman named Karen, they are sneering at every woman over the age of 40. So it doesn't matter if you know a nice Karen or if you think it is an OK name. The attitude behind it needs to stop. Especially now that it will be Karen ventilating you in the ER.

A hundred times, this!

It used to be "Sharon" and "Tracy" who were looked down on as being stupid and common.

I actually really don't like this sort of thing.

I agree it's laughing at and looking down on a certain demographic, not literally people called Karen, Sharen, Tracy or whatever. Very unpleasant.

There will be a disproportionately high number of Karen’s in the keyworker demographic all working hard to keep this country going and saving lives - shop assistants, nurses, caters, teachers, social workers etc...

Love the meme Lamahaha

The Beryl that comes to mind when I hear the name is the motorbike road racer from the 60s (Swain- I just looked her up).

More cool Beryls. Who would have known!!

As a Karen and a Susan and born in 1950 I take exception to this on all fronts, also a Boomer , how many insults have I had?

It’s lazy and boring, the people who use it think they are really funny. Although on another thread today, I saw a so called feminist accusing someone who was clearly middle aged of ‘clucking’ over looking after a young man.
It’s everywhere, hatred of women over 40.

It's noticeable that the "ok boomer" comeback has faded somewhat.

Sadly I’ve seen it used several times on MN over the past couple of weeks. I call it out every time. Those using it think they’re being very smart and sassy, not realising they just sound like lazy, thick twats.

Susan and Karen are names for 1950s babies not 1970

The ones I know are 70s kids.

Sadly it is just another way of dividing society into us and them. Boomers and snowflakes, Leave and Remain etc.

The ability to group large sectors of the population together so you can jointly blame them for whatever is going wrong for you today.

I think some people are projecting this "Karen" thing onto all women, so therefore we can get all feministy outraged by it. Thing is the Karen thing came out of the retail sector primarily in America to describe that situation whereby you are serving someone who very much looks down on you (the retail worker), and should you not measure up to or comply with their every (often unreasonable) request like to wield the notion that speaking to manager will somehow get you in trouble.

The reason why this whole thing is a Karen and not a male name is not actually out of any underlying sexism of course both men and women can be asshats in a shop, it's just that particularly in America most purchasing is overwhelmingly undertaken by women, thus your average downtrodden low-income retail worker is likely to rub up against a lot more Karens than Kyles. To pretend otherwise would be to deny the lived experience of a lot of low income worker.

Hope that helps.

Yes, that was mentioned back on the first page Anti - the trouble is that it's being used in the UK, by UK kids in a different way, in the way we're discussing now.

I think a lot of mumsnet yet are just a bit older than the demographic that use the meme and don’t fully get it. Which is fine, but it’s not something that warrants getting worked up over. It’s certainly not an attack on people called Karen. And “Karen” isn’t an ICU nurse, or a hair dresser or a TA. That’s quite literally the whole point off he meme.

I know a Susan. She is mid 30's

Chiyo - have a quick search on Twitter.. it's pretty obvious how it's being used, and who it's aimed at.

It might have started off specific, but now it's being used to blame older women for all the worlds ills (especially running out of toilet roll - which is interesting since if you google image search it, it's majority pictures of men with trollies full of loo roll - which has been my personal experience too)

Chiyo I'm not older. I can still see shite stereotyping that puts women, especially older women, "in their place".

Certain behaviours do need to be shamed. Karen isn’t a person, it’s a collection of behaviours that have been embodied. “Karen” sits outside a school in a Land Rover for an hour with the engine running instead of opening a window. “Karen” calls the police in a black family having a picnic in the park. “Karen” leaves her dog shit on the path for people to stand in. “Karen” protests services in place for children with disability and special needs because her neuro typical kids feel “excluded”.

If you have a problem with those behaviours being called out and shamed then that’s an issue with you.

No Chiyo it just shows that you are heavily invested in sexist and ageist stereotypes.

Yes, I see it a lot. Annoying if you're a Karen as it's used pejoratively. It's definitely a 'middle-aged woman' put down. But also, Sharon, Susan, Janet...I have seen them all used in memes to denote a certain type. My colleague actually has a mug with 'IDGAF about your diet, Susan'.

It's not exclusive to women though, there are male equivalents.

My name shortens to Flo, and my sister has a child.

Imagine my joy at being called Aunt Flo and the associations with that.

Chiyo666 Only women are responsible for certain behaviours? It's all rather unpleasant. Using a personal name as an insult is nasty - and it's a name particularly common in middle-aged and older women. Definite sexism and ageism. What's with the race issue? My friend from school was black. It's not just a white woman's name.

You clearly don’t get it but whatever.

Look up videos of black families being harassed in America for just going about their lives. It’s almost always middle aged white women pretending that they feel threatened.
Most racial harassment I’ve received have been from middle white women. You having a black friend means nothing. Usually a line said by those people actually.