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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The immigration analogy for transwomen

201 replies

MrsCollinssettled · 15/03/2020 22:46

Did anyone see the article in Saturday's Telegraph magazine about Diana Thomas? Diana said "I use the immigration analogy because in the same way that immigrants bring to their host nation things from their own culture - food, music, whatever I think I can bring- or we can bring- something new and interesting to the female experience. And I absolutely don't deny the guy in me. I am not pretending I am not still him in many ways."

Diana believes that being female is all about the clothes (says she "has almost caught up on the 40 years of shopping she missed out on") and nurturing "I have earned my way for long enough, so yes, put a pinny round my neck and let me be a homemaker, please!"

OP posts:
Strangerthantruth · 26/03/2020 11:57

More from Thomas. Lots about drama queening and hysteria, all because of the hormones you see. And will miraculously be the first human male ever to become female.

Mostly, as a customer, I’m called ‘madam’. The occasional cheery lady behind a till goes for ‘love’, or even ‘darling’. But I added a new one on a Saturday afternoon – one of those last, precious days of freedom – when a customer-services lady on the other end of the phone said, ‘No need to panic, my dove.’

I was in a proper tizz. I’d forgotten a laser-zapping session and stood to pay around £100 as a cancellation fee. The phone lady called the clinic, and then reported, ‘They say you’re very sweet so you can just rearrange the appointment and they won’t charge you a fee.’

Suitably charmed and relieved, I calmed down, but by Sunday morning I was getting frantic again. I was kneeling on the floor of Dad’s utility-room-cum-pantry, surrounded by supplies for his self-isolation.

The cans, packets and bottles piled up around me as I desperately tried to keep up with the trays being carried in from the Tesco van outside. ‘Don’t you fret, my dear,’ the kindly, middle-aged driver said, as he began to lend a hand. ‘We’ll soon get this sorted.’

Now, many an intelligent, independent, grown-up woman might bridle at being called ‘my dove’ or having a man very gently let her know that she’s becoming a touch hysterical, but not to worry because he’s going to make everything all right. But I am not one of them.

In the first place, I actually was fretting. I’ve always been prone to drama queening, and massive does of oestrogen don’t seem to have helped. It was deeply reassuring to have a soothing voice in my ear and a helping hand to sort everything out.

Secondly, I have learnt in recent years to recognise and be grateful for kindness when I see it, whether it is delivered in appropriately PC language or not. I value a warm heart over a woke dictionary any day.

And thirdly, no transwoman ever minds being the victim of everyday micro-sexism. After all, being treated like a woman is the proof that she has passed as one. And that is a pearl beyond price.

Likewise, I will always take a compliment, particularly when it comes from other women, because it’s such a sign of acceptance as one of the tribe. I was at the chemist one day, picking up my hormone patches, when the lady dealing with my prescription said, ‘You’re looking really nice. I meant to say it the last time you were in.’ Another of the staff smiled at me and nodded encouragingly in agreement.

Half an hour later, Dad’s amazing cleaner Joyce, who is both a licensed pilot and an FA-qualified referee, was similarly sweet. And this has been my overwhelming experience of transition. It has been far easier than I expected, utterly joyous, in fact, largely due to the kindness and acceptance I have experienced.

But if every cloud has a silver lining, it follows that in a life filled with silver linings there has to be the odd dark cloud.

Still basking in those lovely ladies’ compliments, I got involved in a Facebook debate about self-declaration: the idea that a transperson can just say, ‘I am a woman,’ and immediately make it so. As I have said before, I’m not a fan.

I believe that claims should be backed by evidence. So, I posted, ‘I’ll wait until I have completed this process, surgically and legally, before I definitively say, “I am female.”’

Then it will be the truth and, what’s more, the law of the land, founded on court rulings that specifically considered and rejected (on scientific grounds) the idea that the genetic differences between men and women pose an insuperable barrier to transition.

Sadly, however, some people haven’t got the memo. Immediately I got a comment to inform me that I was wrong. I could never be female, that was basic science. ‘You will always be male.’

That is about the nastiest, most hurtful thing you can say to a transwoman. It effectively denies our identity, as if we are simply the creations of our own self-delusions. So it hit me like the proverbial punch to the gut.

But then I thought of all the lovely women who have welcomed and embraced me as one of their own. And I got up, tidied my hair, swiped on some lippy and carried on with the rest of my day.

ScapaFlo · 26/03/2020 12:05

I think I'm going to be sick.

That is some of the most offensive crap I've ever read 😡

Winesalot · 26/03/2020 12:09

And I got up, tidied my hair, swiped on some lippy and carried on with the rest of my day.

the rest of my day... after all, it is the 1950s and I have to meet the day with my ‘face’ on and continue to embrace those womaning stereotypes.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 26/03/2020 12:10

That whole article is repulsive but this bit in particular...

Now, many an intelligent, independent, grown-up woman might bridle at being called ‘my dove’ or having a man very gently let her know that she’s becoming a touch hysterical, but not to worry because he’s going to make everything all right. But I am not one of them.

And why do you think that is, "love"?

Binterested · 26/03/2020 12:11

This gets more and more offensive each week. And I am happy to deny this person their identity when their identity is based on a lie and an offensive lie at that.

How fucking dare they. And no. They will never be a woman. My only apology is for using the they pronoun. I would happily use the truthful and correct one but would be deleted. I will never call this person she.

BINtersectionalFeminism · 26/03/2020 12:13

FFS Angry

KaronAVyrus · 26/03/2020 12:21

This person is certifiable.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 26/03/2020 12:22

The syndrome that we are not allowed to discuss is progressive in nature, so it's only going to get worse as far as that column is concerned.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/03/2020 12:26

The phone lady called the clinic, and then reported, ‘They say you’re very sweet so you can just rearrange the appointment and they won’t charge you a fee.’

www.inyourdreams.com

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/03/2020 12:27

Not a real web link Grin

RedDogsBeg · 26/03/2020 12:28

I believe that claims should be backed by evidence. So, I posted, ‘I’ll wait until I have completed this process, surgically and legally, before I definitively say, “I am female.”’ Then it will be the truth and, what’s more, the law of the land, founded on court rulings that specifically considered and rejected (on scientific grounds) the idea that the genetic differences between men and women pose an insuperable barrier to transition.

Did the Courts really reject on scientific grounds the genetic differences between males and females, not in my understanding of the ruling.

Sadly, however, some people haven’t got the memo. Immediately I got a comment to inform me that I was wrong. I could never be female, that was basic science. ‘You will always be male.’

They are correct basic science states that you are indeed and always will be genetically and biologically male.

That is about the nastiest, most hurtful thing you can say to a transwoman. It effectively denies our identity, as if we are simply the creations of our own self-delusions. So it hit me like the proverbial punch to the gut.

Yes you are the creation of your own self-delusions. Your identity is that of a transwoman, not an adult human female. The nastiest and most hurtful thing you can do or say is that you are female and deny females the right to their own identity.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/03/2020 12:28

And why do you think that is, "love"?

Quite. Vom.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 26/03/2020 12:31

And then the good witch Glenda told me that I was the prettiest woman she'd ever seen, and then the entire crowd applauded, and then a unicorn that was also a pegasus descended from the sky to carry me away to further applause.

(Next week's column, presumably)

RedDogsBeg · 26/03/2020 12:33

The whole thing is both vomit and rage inducing at the same time, quite a feat.

SophocIestheFox · 26/03/2020 12:39

Christ alive.

Melroses · 26/03/2020 12:40

Ughhhh Envy

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/03/2020 12:44

I think this particular male person perfectly demonstrates many of the problems inherent in gender identity ideology.

SophocIestheFox · 26/03/2020 12:48

Am keen to understand the science by which Thomas will produce a large, immobile gamete.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 26/03/2020 14:13

And thirdly, no transwoman ever minds being the victim of everyday micro-sexism. After all, being treated like a woman is the proof that she has passed as one. And that is a pearl beyond price.

JFC...

Clear proof that transwomen are not women.

My daughter being harassed in the street with her friends because they are girls - 11-12yrs is a putrid pearl beyond price they could well do without.

Is Diana trolling...?

Does Diana have daughters?

ThinEndoftheWedge · 26/03/2020 14:18

You’re looking really nice. I meant to say it the last time you were in.’ Another of the staff smiled at me and nodded encouragingly in agreement.

They’re trying to keep your custom Diana as a lifetime of exogenously imposed hormones helps them keep afloat financially.

Women don’t get this response in the chemist -
Women get -‘do you have to pay for that prescription?’.

Datun · 26/03/2020 14:26

Now, many an intelligent, independent, grown-up woman might bridle at being called ‘my dove’ or having a man very gently let her know that she’s becoming a touch hysterical, but not to worry because he’s going to make everything all right.

There really is something so very wrong, isn't there. The blindness is absolute.

There isn't a person on the planet who would read that and not take an educated guess why Thomas has transitioned.

It's my betting that Thomas is going to encounter any number of kindly, twinkly, supportive people over the next few columns. They will be petted and nurtured and understood, in between the odd meanie who makes them cry. They may even get their eyes dabbed by a kindly DPS man. Exciting stuff.

RedDogsBeg · 26/03/2020 14:28

Is Diana trolling...?

No, I don't think so. It is a perfect illustration of how a man can never be nor understand what it is to be a woman, men believe that the attention they deem to give to women and girls should be appreciated and welcomed at all times and in all circumstances.

Kantastic · 26/03/2020 15:32

Fucking hell that last column... and the attribution of Thomas's self absorbed vapid narcissism to "oestrogen" and being "hysterical."

I would like to write off the immense rage and loathing I felt upon reading that by making a joke, but it's not really safe to make jokes around this subject on here is it?

So I will just say it straight up. Every word of that column insults women. Being lumped into the same category as Thomas insults me and every woman that I have any kind of respect for. The only women this doesn't insult, in fact, are the ones who voluntarily choose to accept that they have some commonality with Thomas - let them absorb the logical consequences of their pandering.

Me, I have nothing in common with Thomas or any other person like Thomas, and never will.

And yes, since you said it first, Thomas, " the creations of our own self-delusions" is a great way of phrasing it.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 26/03/2020 16:13

So I will just say it straight up. Every word of that column insults women. Being lumped into the same category as Thomas insults me and every woman that I have any kind of respect for. The only women this doesn't insult, in fact, are the ones who voluntarily choose to accept that they have some commonality with Thomas - let them absorb the logical consequences of their pandering.

Indeed. This person is essentially constructing a shrine to sexism in a national broadsheet. Anger is an entirely appropriate response.

SophocIestheFox · 26/03/2020 16:28

I cannot work out if the torygraph are publishing this because they fundamentally share these sexist, outdated notions of womanhood and are happy that Thomas is placingThomas in the “woman” box, because women are emotional, make up wearing, leg waxers and if Thomas does those things, then they are clearly a woman too; or if they are letting Thomas run on in such a transparently absurd and offensive way to actually undermine trans issues?

The editors aren’t stupid. I tend to think it’s the latter.

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