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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The immigration analogy for transwomen

201 replies

MrsCollinssettled · 15/03/2020 22:46

Did anyone see the article in Saturday's Telegraph magazine about Diana Thomas? Diana said "I use the immigration analogy because in the same way that immigrants bring to their host nation things from their own culture - food, music, whatever I think I can bring- or we can bring- something new and interesting to the female experience. And I absolutely don't deny the guy in me. I am not pretending I am not still him in many ways."

Diana believes that being female is all about the clothes (says she "has almost caught up on the 40 years of shopping she missed out on") and nurturing "I have earned my way for long enough, so yes, put a pinny round my neck and let me be a homemaker, please!"

OP posts:
MrsDoylesTeaBags · 16/03/2020 13:19

Exactly Errol and the belief that they have all this caring and nurturing side to them that they've never been able to express despite having a wife and 3 children breaks my heart. For the poor family of course not the self absobed delusionist.

TinselAngel · 16/03/2020 13:27

Posts about AGP tend to get deleted. I do wonder who it is always reporting them.

Fortunately there is ample evidence on the trans widows threads.

Floisme · 16/03/2020 13:34

One positive thing to come out of the article is that it brought home to me how it behoves us all to complete the Scottish GRA consultation that closes today. So thank you for that.
The ForWomen.Scot guidelines are very good if you're in a hurry - link on the Scottish GRA thread.

Binterested · 16/03/2020 13:35

Although MNHQ told me that we could discuss AGP but I don’t know to what extent.

It seems we are not allowed to point out the obvious right in front of us but we can talk about it in the abstract Hmm.

Floisme · 16/03/2020 13:36

Correction: I believe it closes tomorrow - March 17th.

chillied · 16/03/2020 13:51

If Womanland was issuing visas, I doubt one would get offered to the writer of that 2011 Mail article on women's sports

TinselAngel · 16/03/2020 14:04

Maybe somebody who's not currently on a strike could ask what the rules are about discussing AGP here?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 16/03/2020 14:06

I think you have to not imply that a specific person who might threaten to sue has it, even if it's incredibly obvious that you are correct.

zanahoria · 16/03/2020 14:17

I am sick of analogies, they rarely even prove much, you either agree with them or you don't.

Binterested · 16/03/2020 14:26

I did ask and they didn’t reply.

I think it must come down to referring to it in specific cases where the person might take offence or sue. Although the post I got a strike for was in relation to an unknown person with no identifying details so absolutely no prospect of causing offence to the individual concerned because they were unidentifiable.

I also think there should be a different bar for people who write publicly about their behaviour and who expressly refer to their nice new boobs and what a lot they have to offer a man. We didn’t infer any of this. DT said it themselves in a national newspaper.

R0wantrees · 16/03/2020 14:41

I also think there should be a different bar for people who write publicly about their behaviour and who expressly refer to their nice new boobs and what a lot they have to offer a man. We didn’t infer any of this. DT said it themselves in a national newspaper.

Unherd Julie Bindel article about David Thomas' Telegraph column about boobs:

'What women really want? You’ve got no idea'
(extract)

"I think my boobs are, well… pretty. They’re neat and round and because they’re so new and small, they don’t sag. I love how they feel, too, and the way I keep being reminded of their presence. I can’t see a flight of stairs, or an escalator on the Tube, without wanting to run up it two steps at a time. I like to come down fast, too. But it’s a very different experience when you suddenly have to clamp a hand across your chest to stop the jiggling.”

So writes the journalist David Thomas, who pens a weekly column in the Daily Telegraph charting his ongoing sex change, and which in his latest column involves telling readers all about the new breasts he has begun to grow as a result of taking female hormones. Thomas seems rather pleased with himself about the whole thing.

As a girl growing up my developing breasts caused me to feel self-conscious and embarrassed, purely as a result of the gawping, sexist males who made my life hell. This was an experience I shared with all the girls in my school, and indeed with girls everywhere. For Thomas, in contrast, flaunting his breasts is a thing of great joy and liberation.

The Telegraph writer’s views about womanhood have certainly evolved over the years. In 1992, Thomas, then a founder of the men’s rights movement, wrote Not Guilty: The Case in Defence of Men, a rant about how feminists have the brass neck to blame men for the terrible things they do to women, rather than themselves. To sum it up, his entire thesis seemed to be “Stop blaming men for the things that nasty women make us do to them!”

In 1995, Thomas wrote an article in the Telegraph entitled: “If you can’t beat today’s women, then join them,” in which he argued that womanhood is filled with joys and privilege. As an example, he wrote: “A modern girl can play rugby, go to a strip joint, enter any profession and be applauded.” The piece was illustrated with a photograph of Thomas dressed in a flowery dress and holding a handbag.

This is the same man who complained in Not Guilty that “Western society is obsessed with women to the point of mass neurosis”. In the book, Thomas also stated: “The fact is, people are in pain. And right now, the ones who wear trousers and stand up to piss don’t seem to count for much when it comes to being healed.” (continues)

concludes:
I really could not care less whether Thomas calls himself Davina or David; I consider it to be entirely up to him what he wears and how he presents himself. But he has no earthly idea what it means to be a woman, and has spent the past three decades demonstrating just that. While feminists fight for the right for women to break free of oppressive sex stereotypes, the likes of Thomas claim them for himself. It is high time we called out narcissistic autogynephiliacs. I am sick of the cowards who hide behind the few of us who speak out against this male appropriation of what it really means to be a woman, as opposed to a male fantasy of one."

unherd.com/2019/08/what-women-really-want-youve-got-no-idea/

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 16/03/2020 14:42

Quite literally boobing boobily down the stairs! Poor fellow Tube passengers.

StealthPolarBear · 16/03/2020 14:49

"
Today 11:45ErrolTheDragon

A lot of men start cooking and 'homemaking' when they get to Thomas's sort of age and downshift or retire."
Really good point. My grandma died when I was about ten and my grandad, who up till that point had been the provider and probably never boiled an egg, discovered not only could he cook and bake, but he enjoyed it too. He made and decorated my wedding cake :o I'm not aware that he ever became a woman.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 16/03/2020 14:58

I'm just picturing this person running madly up and down the stairs staring excitedly at their own chest as everyone around them is side-eyeing them and trying to get around them to get to work.

StealthPolarBear · 16/03/2020 15:20

They'd be pouting too. Anf probably cupping.

AParallelUniverse · 16/03/2020 15:50

Its only actual women that bring anything to the female experience. Male experiences are not necessary, nor are they required.

Thinkingabout1t · 16/03/2020 16:38

Could someone post the Telegraph link with a share token, please?
Thanks!

ErrolTheDragon · 16/03/2020 16:41

The Telegraph doesn't do share tokens, I'm afraid.

DodoPatrol · 16/03/2020 16:50

"I mean, look at the fuss women make about child birth. Now, I'm not saying it doesn't smart a bit, but if blokes did it, I reckon you'd be looking at, what, give birth, have a couple of Paracetamol, maybe a bit of a nap and then back to work within the hour".

His view of womanhood is straight out of Men Behaving Badly. Except they intended to be funny.

DodoPatrol · 16/03/2020 16:52

Realised that could be confusing! That was a MBB quote, not from the DT article.

And 'his' should have been 'DT's'.

ErrolTheDragon · 16/03/2020 17:00

When I had DD, all I had by way of pain relief was a TENS machine, which DH (trying to be useful) kept dialling up until I felt it was just irritating rather than helpful. When we got home, he was curious to find out what this wonderful contraption felt like so stuck it to his back and turned it on ... howled in agony. Yes, the device designed to distract a bit from the pain of childbirth turned out to be unbearably painful when applied to a man.Grin

Datun · 16/03/2020 17:15

Errol

I thought the tens machine was absolute crap, did fuck all for me. Until the midwife pointed out that DH was turning it up when it was supposed to go down and vice versa.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 16/03/2020 17:24

Not sure if anyone has stated this - but if I went into an West Indian / Bangladeshi etc community centre to state that I (white) could bring something and expand their experience, I rightly would be told to fuck off. Diana - fuck off.

Diana - how many women per year die in the UK from childbirth? - 67.

How many people die from getting your legs waxed? None.

Your comparison of the two experiences is obscene.

Just fuck off.

Datun · 16/03/2020 17:31

My question to Thomas is why they didn't get their legs waxed before they transitioned?

Do they subscribe to the IndiaWilloughby school of thought that hairy legs on humans are only 'dirty' if those humans are women?

Thesuzle · 16/03/2020 17:34

I can not abide the stupid f..... almost ruins the Telegraph for me