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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Controversial networks (considered by some to be "cults") mumsnet readers need to be aware of

188 replies

hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 07:08

This is going to be a very long thread and posting it is very overdue

The word "cult" is quite loaded and obviously one person's religious movement or psychotherapy / life coaching / wellness organisation is another person's cult.

Sometimes cultic dynamics arise in family and extended family groups also, so the word "cult" can be a loaded and problematic one.

There is a lot I need to share here, this is made more urgent by the fact that, while I train hard and am fairly healthy, I do have underlying health problems that mean there is a chance I may not survive the comming storm.

I am somewhat dyslexic and have always struggled with spelling. I am pushed for time and do not trust spelling / grammar apps on my computer so I hope readers will forgive my occasional typos, spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.

I will be doing this in small, digestible posts for ease of reading.

I would say "enjoy!" but what I am about to share is not remotely enjoyable. This is going to be a thread of horrifying, dark, twisty rabbit holes with many network links to material other posters here have shared.

More to follow shortly

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hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 07:19

Firstly I would like to go back in time to the 1980s.

I was living in a very alternative lesbian community in London, surrounded by eccentric artists, flamboyant gay men and lots of lesbians who enjoyed alternative sexual practices (what today would be called "kink").

Some of my friends became aware of a community of lesbians, living in Ireland, who recreated past times and lived a St Trinnians lifestyle with elements of corporal punishment. They used old money, rejected new gadgets and were extremely eccentric, dressing in vintage clothing, listening to gramaphones, etc.

Several women of my acquaintance were keen to discover more about this strange community and thought it sounded very exciting.

I have recently been researching what happened to this community and would like to share my research here.

I believe that readers will be very interested in what I have found as there are lots of strange resonances with things happening today.

So, to start with, here are some videos of an 1980s TV programme, seen by my then friends, all about a mysterious "Miss Martindale" and her community

part 1

part 2

part 3

I warn you, this is going to get very, very dark

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hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 07:30

This particular cult has many names including but is most commonly known as Aristasia

"Miss Martindale", not her real name, cane be seen being interviewed by new age enthusiast Toyah Wilcox in 1996 here

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hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 07:42

Another name of the cult was the Maids of the Silver Sisterhood. A matriarchal society. Or something.

Miss Martindale reinvents herself yet again, this time with a Victorian theme

They moved to Donegal (they were originally in Oxford I believe) and archival videos of their activites in Donegal can be found here

the text under the video reads

"A group of women have come to Donegal to set up a sanctuary from the modern world.

The Silver Sisterhood, also known as Rhennes, arrived in Burtonport, Co Donegal in September 1982 from a small town in Yorkshire. They call themselves Rhennes in honour of a mythical goddess who was half maid, half-mare. They have their own language, music and a deep tradition of crafts in a pre-mechanised lifestyle. They wear full-length dresses and shawls and keep their heads covered when in public.

It’s here next door to the raw Atlantic they plan to establish their village. It’s to be a sanctuary from the modern world.

All of the group were strangers from different backgrounds before arriving in the Donegal town. The group is all women apart from one man, and refer to themselves as ‘maids’ rather than women. The role man has played in civilisation has no place in this community.

The group’s spiritual leader Sister Angelina tells RTÉ News about the origins of the group since its foundations in Devon and Cornwall.

he Rhennish tradition is the most ancient religious and cultural tradition in these Islands, that is to say in Britain and in Ireland, and we worship God as the mother and everything we do is centred around that worship.

This tradition extends beyond acts of worship to the crafts they practice, their language, their songs and their stories. The group have a strong work ethic which is an integral part of their spirituality.

In their new home by the sea, music and storytelling are now daily occurrences all spoken through the Rhennish tongue which dates back to the 14th century. All of their musical instruments are handmade by community members. They also make their own clogs, which they wear and will soon be sold to the public. They also plan to sell embroidered cloths depicting important Rhennish beliefs in the tree of life.

The maids live a simple existence without electricity or modern appliances in this centre which was once the home of the Screamers called ‘Atlantis’, and has now been renamed as ‘An Droichead Beo’ (The Bridge of Life). More members from Yorkshire are due to arrive at the centre before Christmas. In keeping with their pursuit of self-sufficiency, they plan to grow their own crops and have already begun to work the land around the centre.

While they mix little with the outside world, they have so far maintained a harmonious relationship with the local community.

For all their friendliness these new settlers aren’t quite what you expect to find in a Donegal fishing village."

At approx 1.05 minutes in the mysterious Sister Angelina can be seen. Only partially see, because she is very sacred and cannot be shown. Or something.

Astute readers will notice that Sister Angelina, even though hidden by her shawl and strange camera angles, has incredibly wide shoulders, heavy brows and a very deep voice.

OP posts:
hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 07:46

another video here

Miss Martindale (not her real name) is now Miss Clare Tyrrell. As we progress down the rabbit hole there will be further names and revalations about this person

The Victorian Romantics - Burtonport, Donegal Ireland (1988)

text reads

"The Victorian Romantics of Burtonport in County Donegal have eschewed modern life in order to live according to 19th century values.

A group of women known as the Victorian Romantics live in Atlantis House in Burtonport. The property was previously inhabited by the Atlantis commune known locally as the Screamers.

A short film made for the Late Late Show shows the ladies visiting Michael Farren’s butchers shop in Dungloe, a maid carrying out various duties, instruction being given on deportment, and members of the group sewing and reading by gaslight while listening to their wind up gramophone.

Mistress of the house Miss Clare Tyrrell, originally from England and her housekeeper, New Zealander Miss Reiner, appear on the ‘The Late Late Show’ to explain why they have chosen to live as Victorians. Miss Tyrrell says,

We don’t concern ourselves with present at all, we live in a little world inside our house.

Miss Tyrrell is not living in a precise year and the different members of the household each favour different periods within the Victorian era. Miss Tyrrell prefers the early part of Queen Victoria’s reign as she enjoys being demure, modest and ladylike. Another member of the group prefers the mid 19th century and chooses to wear a crinoline petticoat.

Miss Tyrrell is keen to stress the group are not simply escaping the modern world.

We see it as something much more creative and enjoyable than that.

This episode of ‘The Late Late Show’ was broadcast on 25 March 1988."

OP posts:
hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 07:56

The property that the Aristasian community moved in to had previously been occupied by a new age therapy cult based on Primal Scream therapy. They were known locally as The Screamers and their story is also interesting and has resonances with various issues of concern today.

In my research into cults I have discovered that this kind situation, where one cultic group moves out of a property and another cultic group moves in, is not uncommon.

As I am pushed for time I will be sharing videos and links here for others to follow up with further research, should they wish.

Some videos about the Screamers at the Altantis Commune, the same property subsequently occupied by the Aristasians

The Screamers commune did not end well, in fact they ran into serious trouble with paramiliatary group FARC in Columbia and terrible tragedies resulted

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hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 08:17

One of my friends back in the day, a sweet woman who had been sexually abused as a child and was extremely vulnerable, was very taken by these stories of Miss Martindale and her friends.

My friend was in the process of trying to contact Miss Martindale when she heard some very disturbing news. Basically we heard from multiple sources that Miss Martindale and her friends were involved with far right political groups, neo-Nazi groups etc.

Some media links

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200308154712/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/whips-canes-silly-monkeys-1609801.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200308154712/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/whips-canes-silly-monkeys-1609801.html

this is a very interesting read

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200229175700/flexiblehead.blog/2014/02/16/st-brides-school/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200229175700/flexiblehead.blog/2014/02/16/st-brides-school/

it gets darker and darker as we progress down the rabbit hole

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Bezalelle · 15/03/2020 08:21

Ok... What are you hoping to gain from posting all of this nonsense?

bingbangbing · 15/03/2020 08:25

I don't think you're well at the moment

hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 08:29

The above link re St Bride's School includes an image that I will post here from the first internet game to be awarded an 18+ rating, a game developed by Miss Martindale and her associates, the notorious

Jack the Ripper

One has to wonder why a self-proclaimed women's empowerment commune, claiming to reconnect women with their essential femininity, would produce a notorious computer game based on the exploits of Jack the Ripper?

Do I detect a theme?

Controversial networks (considered by some to be "cults") mumsnet readers need to be aware of
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hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 08:31

Miss martindale is currently working as a child psychotherapist in the US

Mary Guillermin LMFT - Therapist Los Angeles, CA

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hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 08:35

Another front organisation for Aristasia was the Ordo Lux Mandriana

as can be seen in this archived page of one of the Aristasian websites

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200308063923/madriandeanicresources.wordpress.com/schism-of-ordo-lux-madriana-1983/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200308063923/madriandeanicresources.wordpress.com/schism-of-ordo-lux-madriana-1983/

This group was infiltrating feminst spiritual movements back in the 1980s and 90s

archive of Heresies Magazine - A feminist publication on art and politics - The Great Goddess issue (worthy of scrutiny)
archive.org/details/heresies_05/page/n133/mode/2up/search/Lux+Madriana?q=Lux+Madriana

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hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 08:39

The Aristasians have bizarre opinions on sex and gender

They believe that there are only 2 sexes, both female, blondes and brunettes

A link to another of the cults own websites, they also love sci-fi

"The Birth of a Gender-Genre: Intemorphiction FAQ
So what is intemorphiction? What is so unique about it that makes it a whole new genre?

Intemorphiction is fiction about intemorphs. Intemorphs are races that have two feminine sexes. Both look like human women (if they are humanoid species) but neither are. Neither are female but both are feminine."

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20110910152328/sundaughterpress.com/about/the-birth-of-a-gender-genre-what-is-intemorphiction/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20110910152328/sundaughterpress.com/about/the-birth-of-a-gender-genre-what-is-intemorphiction/

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hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 08:41

Ok... What are you hoping to gain from posting all of this nonsense?

I imagined that readers might like to be aware of some of the convoluted roots of the current gender identity insanity

I also thought that some might be intersted in the astroturfing of feminism by cults

This particualr cult has a lot to offer in that respect

OP posts:
FloraGreysteel · 15/03/2020 08:42

Er... whatever.

IrenetheQuaint · 15/03/2020 08:42

I'm not sure that MN readers really do need to be aware of a weird lesbian cult that existed in 1980s Ireland, but on the other hand it offers a diversion from worrying about the pandemic.

hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 08:43

Thge far right influence is also intersting to me

intersted readers may find this article helpful

The Sunday Telegraph, 3rd January 1993

Neo-Nazi leaflets found in gracious ladies' academy where caning was on the curriculum

Inside the secret world of the sisters of St Bride's

by Richard Pendry and Helena de Bertodano

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200229175659/www.worldofspectrum.org/interviews2/stbrides-st930103.txt" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200229175659/www.worldofspectrum.org/interviews2/stbrides-st930103.txt

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hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 08:49

I'm not sure that MN readers really do need to be aware of a weird lesbian cult that existed in 1980s Ireland

If you had read my links and checked out the videos you would see that at least one of the lesbians, the "spiritual leader" is in fact trans

The absolutely bonkers beliefs around gender and the infiltration of feminist publications, the far right connections and therapy cult associations are worthy of attention surely?

but on the other hand it offers a diversion from worrying about the pandemic.

there's that as well.

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hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 09:03

The cult is highly active today

One of the things I find fascinating about this cult is that, although they advocate a luddite existence, free of modern technology, they embraced the internet, created various early computer games, and now have a significant web presence.

Possibly the most important aspect of this cult is their similarity to many pseudo-feminist cults that promote the divine feminine, the red tent movement and queer / non-binary TRA agendas.

they also promote the idea of multiple selves that resonates with bot hte non-binary movement and the multipe personality / DID therapy cults.

OP posts:
hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 09:13

If you are interested in sexual grooming and brainwashing then I think this cult is an essential one to check out.

The videos appear to show happy adults, enthusiastically embracing role play, spanking and playful escapades. It all looks very British and eccentric and to naive persons may even appear charming.

To buy into the "jolly hockey sticks" / St Trinnians narrative would be a serious mistake in my opinion.

This is something both sinister and fascinating to anyone concerned about the development of discourses around sex and gender identity.

Mary Guillermin LMFT - Therapist, formerly Miss Martindale and many other names, married the famous late film director John Guillermin, many years her senior.

Interview with her here

She was convicted of assaulting a female follower as stated in one of my earlier links

How can it be that such a person is working as a child psychotherapist?

OP posts:
Mlou32 · 15/03/2020 09:19

With all due respect, do you have involvement with mental health services? I would maybe check in with your CPN if you have one, GP or crisis team.

hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 09:23

I'll make this easy, I have posted a lot here and readers may not wish to trawl through it all

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUKigKY0grs

At approx 1.05 minutes in the mysterious Sister Angelina can be seen. Only partially see, because she is very sacred and cannot be shown. Or something.

Astute readers will notice that Sister Angelina, even though hidden by her shawl and strange camera angles, has incredibly wide shoulders, heavy brows and a very deep voice.

For the record, if this was a community of people, trans or not, involved in spanking and role playing I really couldn't care less. Crack on

My interests in this group are to do with

scamming / bait and switch

the promotion of bizarre beliefs around sex and gender

sexual grooming and exploitation

therapy cults

far right political movements

the infiltration of feminist networks by women hating groups

bizarre beliefs about femininity and womanhood

bizarre beliefs about non-binary / multiple selves

the use of the internet by cults

just off the top of my head

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SorryAuntLydia · 15/03/2020 09:29

OP I’m trying to follow... can you post a summary of your point, maybe 1 or 2 sentences.

DuckWillow · 15/03/2020 09:30

I remember this woman from the 80s. She is just a kinkster in my opinion who has invented various groups which then fold as these “societies” just can’t be lived 24/7.

hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 09:37

OP I’m trying to follow... can you post a summary of your point, maybe 1 or 2 sentences.

Thanks for the friendly post, I will try my best

Obscure "matriarchal" cult with origins going back at least to the 1980s

Appeared in various feminist publications going back ot the 80s (sometimes just advertising) concerned with Goddess spirituality and the return of the divine feminine

Claims to be empowering to women and to teach females about femininity through St Trinnians style role playing involving spanking and other methods of corporal punishment. Bizarre beliefs about femininity and womanhood.

2 people involved as leaders one MtT one possibly female although some commentators claim also MtF (I think one female one MtT is the most likely)

One leader known as Miss Martindale and a zillion other names, was convicted for assauting a female in a non-consensual caning incident.

Miss Martindale now working as a child psychotherapist in the US

sprawling current web presence currently involving psychotherapy organisations, women's empowerment website and LGBTI+ groups

there is so much more

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hoodathunkit · 15/03/2020 09:39

also current links to various sex cults of extreme concern

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