Zoe Williams opinion piece in The Guardian

[Justhadathought]

Feminist solidarity empowers everyone. The movement must be trans-inclusive: www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/10/feminist-solidarity-empowers-everyone-the-movement-must-be-trans-inclusive

Needless to say, she misses every single point.......And no, feminism has always been about centring the needs of women and girls.......

[YourVagesty]

Zoe Williams is, and always has been, an awful, awful writer. I really struggle to follow her train of thought most of the time.

...I'll take the plunge now and read this but I anticipate that I'll be wound up at the end of it.

[midgebabe]

Exactly what I thought nonsense.

[SomeDyke]

The issue is that feminism never has been popular with men! Despite lame lib-fem attempts to keep claiming that men can benefit from feminism as well, that nasty sexism and misogyny isn't your fault dear male, just some historical accident that I'm sure you can help us sort out very quickly.......
See, actually feminism isn't just about females, that would be silly we're not that important! No, feminism is about everyone (well, females mainly), being extra special nice to everyone else (well, males mainly), who might be a bit upset. And then we'll all be much happier.

Whilst failing to mention, who are the class that keeps this all going and benefits from it? And is now making sure we can't even name them (or ourselves), that is really a masterstroke!

[Dances]

So very upset about this article.

I have long accepted that there is no therapy for the abuse I have suffered, every attempt was torture, I was triaged again and again., everytime having to again relate my history

I will have to exclude myself from the only thing that helps - exercise, as my gym - Nuffield, say they will allow transwomen on a 'case by case' basis, whatever that means.

Running outdoors is out of the question, just too dangerous at night.

My sincere thanks to the women of these boards for keeping on. I do for a while, then I see the utter betrayal of women, again and again.

I have managed to pull myself through the shit I have endured but it lives with me every single day. It's hard not to feel desperate sometimes, angry, helpless. Why am I so invisible? Everyone knows about abuse survivors, sexual assaults survivors. Why don't we matter?

Do I have to tell my story to the world before I have any consideration from my government? From supposedly progressive journalists?

Why don't I matter at all?

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Provides some relief from accidentally stumbling across all the hate on this website.

"Accidentally"

[YourVagesty]

That last paragraph makes zero sense

Classic Zoe Williams. Alongwith LOJ, she's one of the reasons I stopped reading the Graun. I started to feel like I was bankrolling the 'careers' of people who hadn't fully left their student newspaper days behind them. Mindless drivel with no sense of consistent logic.

[TorkTorkBam]

She has noticed the rise of misogyny.

She has not connected it to teenage girls wanting to avoid growing up to be women.

She has not connected it to middle-aged men into cross-dressing getting the award for best woman ahead of all the actual women.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Zoe Williams is, and always has been, an awful, awful writer. I really struggle to follow her train of thought most of the time.

Yes. She is dreadful and talentless.

I'll take the plunge now and read this but I anticipate that I'll be wound up at the end

Think I'll give my blood pressure a break.

What a clueless, privileged idiot she is.

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

"Oh dear, I appear to have bought a map, and a GPS system, and employed a guide just to be sure, and also a private investigator, and thus I stumbled upon you witches. Totally by accident, of course."

[wonderstuff]

I felt it was so badly written that lots of it made little sense. I wondered if that was purposeful. The arguments don't stack up. The idea the feminists raison d'etre was to champion the underdog was particularly irritating. The idea that women can't champion their own cause unless we simultaneously champion the cause of all except the rich white man? I don't think so.
It was very we'll only get anywhere if we're nice to everyone.
She failed to touch on any valid argument against self ID - which spoke volumes imo.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

I wondered if that was purposeful

I think a lot of these people are in denial that other people see through their bullshit, and that more and more people are waking up to it. Look at that idiot Nandy sharing the interview with Piers Morgan on her Twitter as if she did a bang up job.

[FloralBunting]

Dances totally hearing you, and deeply empathizing. You don't have to do it, not all the time. We hold up each others arms in this xx

[zanahoria]

she should stick to wittering on about her dinner parties

[Justhadathought]

We can’t progress without at least attempting to understand the rationale of those who oppose us

I have attempted to understand, but simply feel it is all 'rainbows and flowers'.......in between getting angry about Harvey Weinstein, and the gender pay gap. It reminds me of when I was 16 years old, and started up a women's group at college ( i was studying Politics, Psychology & Sociology at A-level) - but it was open to men too - if they had 'sympathy with women and their cause'.......how naive I was. It was called 'One Mind'. i didn't want for it to be exclusive.

Why is Harvey Weinstein such an issue? Can you explain?

[Justhadathought]

The discourse around this wider issue is nothing short of a disgrace, perpetuated by those on all sides of this deteriorating debate

But the point is is that there hasn't been a proper public debate It's been cancelled. And so it has become a war of attrition conducted via social media.

[Dances]

Thanks Floral
I'm angry on a daily, hourly basis with this shit, but that article really cut. Maybe just because I have had the Observer delivered for years; am used to reading her articles on a Sunday morning; never thought that she would take such a swipe to my freedom.

it seems personal, I have no idea why.

[FloralBunting]

Dances, because it is - feminism is about the reality of the female experience, and for a lot of us, it's bloody difficult stuff. To read ivory tower princesses pontificating so casually about why women are just stagehands in their own liberation movement, meant to be there simply to support literally everyone else but women, is galling, insulting and cruel. We have your back here. For as long as we possibly can. xx

[Justhadathought]

Read in this and other stuff like it I keep asking myself what makes otherwise intelligent women get it so spectacularly wrong

My suspicion is that many people, perhaps even most, are not that politically attuned.......and don't immediately grasp principles and 'bottom lines'...don't instinctively perceive the larger picture; and so it all comes down to a kind of secular 'do-goodery' or moral 'goodness'. A kind of secular Christianity.

[motorcyclenumptiness]

Alongwith LOJ, she's one of the reasons I stopped reading the Graun
This.

[Justhadathought]

I can't imagine myself ever having a positive reaction to seeing/hearing Belcher speak. That is simply not a person who I would ever instinctively like or trust. So what is it that these women find so compelling

Helen Belcher on her twitter feed this evening suggests that Zoe cam to listen to a speech they gave 'some years ago'....and expressed surprise that she recalled it so well or that it was that meaningful for her.

I suspect that Zoe has not given much active thought or investigation in the intervening years....and she says she has not spoken about the issue for 7 years .

[GorillaAlwaysWin]

Dances 💐
This is so disappointing. I usually quite like her political stuff (although the year of baby columns was excruciating) but she seems to have spectacularly missed the point here.

[R0wantrees]

Helen Belcher tweet,
"I remember being surprised that
@ zoesqwilliams
had been in a talk I gave quite a few years ago. She wrote about it at the time.

I’m amazed that she seems to have remembered it so well that she’s included it in this amazing piece about inclusive feminism."


twitter.com/HelenCBelcher/status/1237485387800510464

[R0wantrees]

cont.
"So, thank you
@ zoesqwilliams
for your strong and inclusive words."

[ALittleBitofVitriol]

How many transwomen did Weinstein assault?

[Justhadathought]

Have to say, having been very 'politically aware' from a young age, then having my first child age 19, I started to become profoundly annoyed at the Guardian, in more recent years. So friggin' irritating: with female writers such as Zoe Williams, going on and on and on about having children, and issues around housework/pay/pensions and so on - like nobody had ever been through this before........like it was some kind of friggin' revelation.